orchid pronounciation

[Dusty Ol' Man]

Originally Posted by claypot

I note from the initial post that Shadeflower is one of the growing brigade in the UK who begin every statement with "so" - just a noise word adding nothing to the context. Youngsters in UK also seem to punctuate everything with "like" between every few words for no particular reason, and any sight of the correct grammar of adverbs following verbs, not preceeding the verb, has disappeared completely - these days for instance one quietly walks instead of walking quietly.

This has been going on in the US for a long while now. The misuse of the word 'so' seems to be the equivalent of the use of the word 'uh' as a noise giving the speaker time to formulate the next thought. And 'like' in your example is completely useless. It seems to be the product of a lack of proper English education, whether British or American.

[WaterWitchin]

Originally Posted by Dusty Ol' Man

... All this to say, since this is a text only forum, does it really matter in the first place?

Only if you're vewy, vewy quiet and listen carefully.

[rbarata]

Originally Posted by Dusty Ol' Man

This has been going on in the US for a long while now. The misuse of the word 'so' seems to be the equivalent of the use of the word 'uh' as a noise giving the speaker time to formulate the next thought. And 'like' in your example is completely useless. It seems to be the product of a lack of proper English education, whether British or American.

I have my own theory...with the internet and easy access to all sort of information, kids don't need to apply any effort to access to it. This has result in a lack of competences to investigate and use their mind creatively.
In other words, they lack the hability to explain many situations by their own words. When they want to do it, it's easier to describe everything using "like this" or "like that". With time the like stuck...

I used to say to my kids that in a few years the evolution of the human species is to have people with one arm bent with the hand in front of the face...of course, by that time, cell phones have disappeared and replaced by something else.

[Ray]

Originally Posted by WaterWitchin

Only if you're vewy, vewy quiet and listen carefully.

Shouldn’t that be “wisten cawefuwwy”?

[isurus79]

This is a fun thread! I've been memorizing species names since I was in first grade and it's always fun to hear how others pronounce the names versus what I've memorized from reading. Often very different!

I want to add that some species/genera/family names seem to have a definite method of pronunciation while no one cares about others. For example, if you say Bulbo-fy-lum you'll get your hand slapped and will be corrected to say Bulbo-fill-um. But I swear there 10 different ways to say mossiae and no one bats an eye.

Originally Posted by Grautier

That would be like saying that american english is like a sort of pidgin english dialect?

Wait, are you saying American English isn't a pidgin dialect?? Sure seems like one to me!

Originally Posted by Dusty Ol' Man

This has been going on in the US for a long while now. The misuse of the word 'so' seems to be the equivalent of the use of the word 'uh' as a noise giving the speaker time to formulate the next thought. And 'like' in your example is completely useless. It seems to be the product of a lack of proper English education, whether British or American.

Reminds of how many use the word "literally" over and over and over again, often when what they're describing is figurative!! I can't recall the last time I heard the word "literally" used in a context that actually contributed meaning to what the user was saying.

[K-Sci]

Originally Posted by estación seca

Botanical Latin has no official pronunciation.

Yes it does. Its Latin. The impression that there s no set pronunciation is because the people doing the naming don't always know the Latin sounds. That's what I was taught in college biology classes, anyway.
-Keith

---------- Post added at 01:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:57 PM ----------

Originally Posted by claypot

Youngsters in UK also seem to punctuate everything with "like" between every few words for no particular reason

I used to think it was a valley girl habit, but there are two guys where I work who get talking about their latest video game experiences, and its, like, every other word.

I hate to say it, but young people these days are a lot less well-educated than they were 50 years ago. Terrible problems with logic are also common.

It used to be you'd go to the store an buy malathion or chlordane. Now its all "insecticide." It can be hard to find out if there's anything it it that will do anything. I've notice that the ratios in fertilizer are starting to be left off too. It's just 'plant food'.


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FWIW, here's my post after running it though a valley speak translator.

I used to think it was like, ya know, a valley chick habit, like, wow but like, there are two dudes where I work who get talkin' about their latest video game experiences, oh, baby and its, man like, fer shure every other word. I hate to say it, man but young guys these days are a lot less well-educated than they were 50 years ago. Terrible problems with logic are also common. It used to be you'd go to thuh store an buy malathion or chlordane. Now its all "insecticide" and it can be like wow! hard to find out if there's anythin' it it that will do anythin'. I've notice that thuh ratios in fertilizer are startin' to be left off too. It's just 'plant food'.

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Or if you prefer Jive

I used t'dink it wuz likes, ya know, some valley chick habit, likes, wow but likes, dere are two dudes where ah' wo'k who get rapin' about deir latest video game 'spuh'iences, oh, baby and its, dude likes, fa' shure every oda' wo'd. ah' hate t'say it, dude but yung guys dese days are some lot less sheeit-educated dan dey wuz 50 years ago. Terrible problems wid logic are also common. 'S coo', bro. It used t'be ya''d go t'duh sto'e an buy maladion o' chlo'dane. What it is, Mama. Right On! Now its all "insecticide" and it kin be likes wow. Right On! hard t'find out if dere's anydin' it it dat gotss'ta do anydin'. I've notice dat duh ratios in fertiliza' are startin' t'be left off too. It's plum 'plant food'.



-Keith

---------- Post added at 01:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:12 PM ----------

Originally Posted by rbarata

I have my own theory...with the internet and easy access to all sort of information, kids don't need to apply any effort to access to it. This has result in a lack of competences to investigate and use their mind creatively.
...

Critical thinking skills have been all but lost giving way to assessments based on first impressions and emotion. The latter leads to narcissism and an inability to accept differing views. Without applying logic, reason, and critical thinking, people fail to get the outcomes they want in their personal and professional lives. Unfortunately, the academic world and journalism have also been infected.



-Keith

[TZ-Someplace]

"But this continues into the orchid world like the phalaenopsis Tetraspis for example. I have heard people pronounce it like Tetrass-pis pronouncing it similar to how a tresspasser would be pronounced whereas I much more like to think of it as a Tetra-spiss."

I used to be a small time taxonomist and studied under some sticklers for pronunciation in the 80s and 90s (my undergrad mentor's father was god of American crayfish taxonomy, and that was just the start for me). My advisors however, were too young to have been forced to learn Latin in school, so they learned from the old timers at the research museums who spent their lives describing species collected during the age of exploration. If you have not studied Latin, putting a compound species name together is difficult because of gender matching rules. I found myself needing to do that for a new species of crab I was calling Thyrolambrus "warty arm" so I contacted a high school Latin teacher to get 'warty' and 'arm' to match each other and then match Thyrolambrus, which is gender neuter (-us). His pronunciation of my proposed species name was nowhere near the standard of the old school American and British taxonomists (That's a "V" dude, like "verruca". Why you saying "W"?). And if you listen to a taxonomist taught in a different language the pronunciation may be much different because they learned their Latin with a different accent. In the end it doesn't matter because ancient Romans are all dead and they pronounced Latin differently from the Victorian teachers of the classical languages that we English speakers get it from (or did back in the day).

I don't care how orchid names are pronounced by the general public because the names are not in a taxonomic context. It's also pretty historically screwed up, and botanists seem do things a bit differently from zoologists. Does anybody care that 'German shepherd' is wrong? That is a man from Germany who herds sheep for a living. And Alsatian is the french toast of dog names, changed because some Germans did some bad things so we have to whitewash the history of a dog and of a tasty breakfast item.

I also don't really care how the names are written out for orchids meant for the general public, but I do think scientifically oriented websites (not this one) should get it right.

phalaenopsis Tetraspis is not quite right.

Phalaenopsis is a proper noun like a family name so it should always be capitalized; 'tetraspis' is the specific epithet. It is an adjective that describes the member of the genus (e.g. the Zimmerman kid who broke his nose - scientific names used to be that long). You cannot have tetraspis without its noun, so it must always be "my P. tetraspis died", not "my tetraspis died" (I lost points on a test for that one, which is why I remember that little lecture so well 20 years later).

A scientific name should be Latinized in print just like legal terms such as ad hoc or Latin phrases like E. Plurbus Unum. The way you do that is with italic (Italian-get it?) font or the old printers instruction of underscore before and after. It would correctly be Phalaenopsis tetraspis or _Phalaenopsis tetraspis_ in print.

Also, it is bad form to start a paragragh with an abbreviated genus name. P. tetraspis...