Hey! That bird is racist!! -or- how long before a reckoning comes to orchids....

[DirtyCoconuts]

This is a very interesting article. Lots of talking points and good issues for debate


All that aside, this will happen to orchids too.

If anyone cares about my opinion, I think one must recognize whomever discovered or named a species BUT only in the record books. I do NOT think we need to have plants and institutions named for people who were of bad moral character....they did the stuff (found the plant) and that is history but I don’t think we have to honor them

Names get changed too often for them to really matter so if it hurts someone’s feelings, do it

My worthless opinion. Feel free to share yours lol

Bird lovers are grappling with honorary names linked to racists. Audubon tops the list.

[Roberta]

Simple solution... stick to the scientific names. (When named after someone unsavory the Latin sort of hides it) Common names are often inaccurate anyway... the scientific names are at least specific to their target, everywhere in the world. (Those change too, but usually for a scientific reason.) Easier for orchids, most of them don't have common names anyway.

[Dusty Ol' Man]

Oh, please! Do we have to go there on this board? Can't we leave the culture war stuff out there where it belongs (or doesn't)?

[DirtyCoconuts]

No need to have any opinion if you don’t want to.

I remember back about 20 years when we did not know anything about our athletes and celebrities outside of their jobs.

I am all about freedom of speech but if you share your politics (or force them on me) it becomes impossible to separate one from the other.


Which is better? Knowing or not knowing? I have no idea

[Dollythehun]

I'm with DOM. I come here for a reprieve from all that "culture." If you're considering others better than yourself you'd spare them unnecessary pain. Besides, who among us hasn't done something ugly?

[Fairorchids]

This is an impossible debate. To apply 21st century ethics & morals to people in:

1500: Nobody spoke for the indigenous peoples.
1700: There were a few voices.
1850: There was a serious debate, soon to be followed by the civil war.
1875: The gains were being wiped out.
1900: Strong support for for the KKK.
2020: Few overt racists, but still significant latent racism (including some by people who proclaim to be against racism).

In the year 2021, nobody is going to name a new species for former Gov. Wallace.
Perhaps we should consider changing names honoring unsavory 19th century individuals.
But going back even further - how can we assign blame to people, who had not even the slightest notion, that their activities would offend descendants 2-400 years hence?`

[Itazura]

That made for an interesting read and I feel it was brought up at a very appropriate time. Considering what's happening in other scientific fields of study, this issue is something that will inevitably arise with orchids, too, whether you want to avoid a discussion on it or not.

Take astronomy, for instance. Late last year NASA announced they would be re-examining the classic names of cosmic objects such as the "eskimo nebula." Sure enough, in one of my most recent editions of Astronomy magazine, I saw a picture of the nebula referred to as the Lion Head Nebula, or something of the sort. It was an instantly recognizable object, but under a completely different name.

To avoid confusion, both astronomers and orchid hobbyists have something in common: a universal "language" for referring to objects within our fields of study. The aforementioned nebula is catalogued with the label NGC 2392, which means it is number 2392 in the New General Catalog. Now, back to orchids, the equivalent of these numbers for them is their scientific names. I agree with Roberta and think we should get used to using plain old, non-controversial scientific names... yet with the taxonomic classification of orchids changing constantly, and even the scientific names of orchids being tweaked every so often, perhaps it may be best to describe an orchid by particular characteristics and hope people know what you're talking about.

[yug]

So, was the name racist, or just merely associated with a person who did racist things? Was everything the guy did always and totally racist? What if the person pointing all this out was descended from a tribe that is found to have enslaved and sold all their defeated enemies? Should we than discount everything that person said, and shun their entire family? What if that person lived a life of charity and generosity? Still not count? When is enough groveling and penitence sufficient? Will it ever be enough? I think we can carry this to extreme. In my family, I am a minority in my own household. We have more photos up of people that don't look anything like me. We have black / brown / white in our home frequently. (black, white, asian, polynesian, & native American) We don't want anything to do with this sort of stuff. We want to be left in peace - by all groups.

Remember reading the words: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Well, this can apply to this issue, too.

[Ray]

Renaming things to eliminate possibly offensive connections is ridiculous, and scientific names are not a simple solution, as there are some highly complex hybrids out there that would be extremely burdensome to document. Plus, might the generic name alone be offensive? Surely someone out there won’t like it that Orchis maculata means “defective testicles”!

If you “must” rename them, you’d do best by going with a number, making the ID have no inherent intelligence.

If there is a Cattleya George Wallace, does it really matter whether it was names after a public racist or maybe a breeder from Bemidji, Minnesota? The plant don’t know the difference...and what did It do to offend you?

The Romans were pretty gruesome, killing and enslaving a lot of those they came across as they marched over the face of the world, but I don’t hear anyone wanting to change the name of Roman candles. Should the people born in Rome NY or Rome GA be ashamed of that???

[Fairorchids]

Full disclosure, while I look 'caucasian', I am mixed blood (as is my wife). This thread reminds me of something I just discovered:

Cymbidium Little Black Sambo (registered in 1966) has been renamed, since there were people who found the name offensive. The official name is now Cymbidium Helen Bannerman (= the author of the book 'Little Black Sambo').

Over the years I have had to explain to many offended people, that:

A. It is the name of a classic childrens book.
B. Sambo is the hero of the book (he defeats the tigers).
C. Sambo is NOT African, but rather a dark skinned Indian youth (notice that the antagonists are tigers, which do not live in Africa).

So, due to the kneejerk reactions of ignorant people, the RHS found it necessary to rename this classic hybrid. I find that renaming offensive.