Economics anyone?

[shakkai]

Originally Posted by goodgollymissmolly

Shannan, most of what you say I certainly agree with. However, I see your daylily example differently than you do. Unlike Hosta collectors, daylily collectors stay away from tissue cultured plants because of the poor flower replications on the market. I could argue all day about why that is, but I'll skip that on an orchid forum.

What you did not say was that new daylily introductions sell for $100-300 US. I've paid $500 for tetraploid conversions of several daylily cultivars. While I realize that orchid species/hybrids can sell for $1000's or even tens of $1000's those are rare. $150 daylilies are the norm.

I think TC daylilies have really impacted the US market for older (3 years or more) daylily clones. That secondary market helped to support hybridizers in the past. Certainly TC (mericlone) orchids have both reduced prices and made orchids available to the masses. The replication question is less important because the orchids themselves vary widely in the wild. If the only orchid market was hybrids (as it is in daylilies) then the faithful reproduction would be more important to orchid people. Hostas are no different. TC Hostas dominate the market, individual clones vary so widely in different climates and cultures that minor TC differences are ignored.

Why would a very successful orchid/landscape person like Frank Smith jump into daylilies....because prices are astronomical that why. The major daylily hybridizers were/are family businesses and they do very well. Unfortunately the involvement of major enterprises like Krull-Smith will be a negative influence for the innovation in daylilies because his marketing power will kill off the innovators. But that barn door is open now and there's no going back.

It's true as you say that sometimes people start out with pot plants and become avid orchid hobbyists. It is also true that many folks never go any further. That's fine as long they don't jump my case because I spend a few bucks on my hobby.

BTW, I never said that people should not brag about their acquisitions on this or any forum. I simply said that I do not. That was to question why Jo Ann jumped me for using the word "snob" which I thought was used in a reasonable context, but no one ever jumped others for bragging about their acquisitions. Hell, I don't know. How are things in England? They pretty much stink in the US. A bunch of people who couldn't afford houses bought one and now they blame everyone but themselves. And we apparently have the three stooges running for president.

I have to dash out of the house for a little while, but I wanted to start this thread off so that I could refer to it in the other post (whence this came).

Things in England are very quickly going the way they are in the US. Home repossessions are at their highest level since the crash in '91. However, I think I wouldn't want to move back to the US anytime soon, as it looks like it will get much worse there. I'd really like to discuss this bit more, as I think there are some interesting things to learn about the present global economic situation. Hopefully, we can talk more about that later.

As for the daylilies, I've been told by some friends who are genetics researchers that they (whoever 'they' are that are doing the micro-propagation) aren't using the correct techniques or the correct meristem cells to begin with, and that is why the cloned plants haven't been good reproductions of the original.

That said, look what happened with Golden Peoker - the variations/mutations that came out of the cloning have really had a positive impact, I think. And I completely agree with your point about the natural variation in both species and hybrid grexes making it not so important to produce exact replicas of the flowers.

Regardless of whether daylilies are TC'd or not, the price for introductions that are more than a few years old really plummets. If you get $40 for something that is a few years old, you're lucky. Even though when introduced, yes, it was upwards of $150. I'm fortunate in my preference for spider and unusual form daylilies. First, they tend to hold their value better. Second, when I started collecting them, diploids were far ahead in this area, so I haven't had to pay the premium for conversions (or for that matter, just the expensive Florida Tets!).