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  #11  
Old 04-05-2015, 07:10 PM
orchidsarefun orchidsarefun is offline
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I am sooo angry with our govenor! Male
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Stop watching SNL ? Stop watching TMZ ? Right - and get educated to be able to vote. Educated like Pence and Co who originally voted in the law against all counsel and subsequently had to do a very public flip-flop because of their stupidity ? Or maybe I'm the uneducated one for not understanding that the lasting damage done to Indiana was worth it ? Except for that pizzeria who are laughing all the way to the Bank.....

Fortunately the world is too big of a place for small-minded people and events have a habit of superceding political/religious/ideological dogma, whether you like it or not.

Watch this guy's video........"you should be scared if you are a Christian " and make your own conclusions about the claims he makes. Yep - perfect fodder for SNL.
https://www.facebook.com/joshua.feuerstein.5

Last edited by orchidsarefun; 04-05-2015 at 07:24 PM..
  #12  
Old 04-05-2015, 07:38 PM
catherinecarney catherinecarney is offline
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I am sooo angry with our govenor! Female
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As the parent of two bisexual children, I personally will not set foot in any state with this law--nor will I willingly spend money at any business or on any product originating in such states. I am currently drafting a letter to the Indiana Board of Tourism and the governor to express my displeasure. IMO, laws of this sort are just as much a violation of civil rights as the "Jim Crow" laws in the south prior to the civl rights movement.

Pity, because we had planned to spend several days at Indiana's State Fair this year competing in their open sheep show.....But there are other shows in states who are more welcoming to my children--and they're the ones who will get my money.

Oh, and as an FYI for Brooke--Federal law trumps state law, just as the Federal Constitution trumps state constitutions.

Catherine

Last edited by catherinecarney; 04-05-2015 at 07:45 PM..
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  #13  
Old 04-05-2015, 07:48 PM
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AnonYMouse AnonYMouse is offline
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1. I have my opinion but will not share it here since, I don't know most of you personally, don't care about your politics, don't care about most of your opinions outside of orchids.

2. What I would really like to know is what is the tax liability regarding GoFundMe donations. That is information that would really REALLY be useful.

3. How can I genuinely get 800K in donations?
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  #14  
Old 04-05-2015, 08:14 PM
Stray59 Stray59 is offline
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Hello, everyone! I Hope this isn't a large can of worms i opened here!
I am aware that Gov. Pence has made amendments to the original law (which initially he swore, over and over, he would never do.....), but the damage was done. The State of Indiana is still losing so much over this law. Again, I do not believe you can legislate "proper" or "acceptable" behavior in a country founded on diversity and freedom.
And yes, I realize that some people have been sued in other states, because they would not serve gay patrons. But look back at history. Do you realize that initially and until very recently, racial discrimination, and yes, even slavery, were justified by many religious groups based on twisted translations of the scripture?
Time and again in America we see examples of how you cannot stem the tide of progress, instead you just waste your time fighting against certain groups obtaining the basic freedoms of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness that this country has always stated it was built on.
For some reason, people think that it is perfectly fine to treat the LGBT community like second-class citizens or sub-humans, who do not deserve equal rights under the law....Indiana has NO protection for gay or lesbian people....I can be fired if my boss decides he is morally opposed to my orientation, and there is no legal recourse I can take. But still I choose to live here, because I believe in the people of this State, although now I really question the Powers That Be.
Yet, many people think that my orientation is a choice. Really? Who would choose to live a life that could offer little more than negative ramifications in every aspect of that life - personal relationships, employment, religion, ect. I am not stupid enough to make such a choice and I know of no other LGBT members who would be. The only choice I was given was whether to be honest about myself and be as happy as I can or to live as if I weren't who I am and be miserable. I choose to be honest and happy.
Why is the highest suicide rate among teens among among gay teens - not just higher, but astronomically higher. Does that really sound like a group of people who is embracing their orientation, or do they appear to be well aware of what an alternative life results in?
At 56 years old, I have come to love who I am and my orientation. I do not thrust my life down anyone's throats, yet many feel that they can restrict my life because they want me to conform to their beliefs or in some way "make me pay" for my orientation. I am what I am......... I fought it for many years, I prayed on it regularly (still do), went through years of therapy, but in the end, I am what I am and I love who I love. And that opens me up to losing the same basic rights that others freely share.
As far as the "Picture of Mohammed" issue that was brought up earlier, I think that would be easy to refuse to do, especially after the Charlie Hebdo attack. Doing something like that would be life endangering and with the precedents on the record I cannot conceive any jury finding for the plaintiff in such a case.
Again, I really did not desire to get at odds with anyone here, but such subjects are sometimes hard to discuss in such forums.
But, if you believe that LGBT orientation is morally wrong or makes a person acceptable to be discriminated against, ask yourself this - "What if you are wrong?" -- forget what you learned in Sunday School for a minute - what if the Word has been mistranslated and distorted, because it was socially acceptable to do so. What if there is a slim chance you are wrong. We have seen this occur throughout history, as is exactly what occurred with racial discrimination prior to the 1960's in this country. So, what if you are misled and all this time YOU are the one that is committing the wrong of not loving your neighbor as yourself or being guilty of passing judgement on others?
Thanks for letting me get this off my chest ( I seem to have a lot on my chest this weekend). Hope I have not offended anyone. That was not my intent. Sorry for turning this into a "Gay Rant", but that is really the heart of this whole issue, isn't it?
---STOP WATCHING SNL ????!!!??? - Sorry, won't do that. I started watching it the year it started, and have not missed a year since, good or bad. I realize it is a satirical comedy show and that this is just temporary fodder for them - but the fact that Indiana has been jeered so much, not only on that show but in many other venues, indicates the amount of damage that Gov. Pence's personal beliefs have brought to this State.
Thanks again for the other perspectives. I understand them, but cannot agree with them, because I was born on the other side of the fence.....
(BTW- Happy Easter to all of you! Our church service was wonderful and I realized I have to forgive even the Govenor - We all make mistakes, but it still stings.....gotta work on that "total" forgiveness part!

Last edited by Stray59; 04-05-2015 at 08:40 PM..
  #15  
Old 04-05-2015, 08:29 PM
Brooke Brooke is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catherinecarney View Post
As the parent of two bisexual children, I personally will not set foot in any state with this law--

Oh, and as an FYI for Brooke--Federal law trumps state law, just as the Federal Constitution trumps state constitutions.

Catherine
Catherine I respect your right to not visit a state with the RFRA law so I have included an article that shows the 19 states with such a law. Also the laws mirror the Federal law passed in '93.

19 states that have ‘religious freedom’ laws like Indiana’s that no one is boycotting - The Washington Post

Yes Federal law trumps State laws but neither the Bill of Rights nor the Constitution prohibits States from having a State approved religion. The First Amendment guarantees everyone has Freedom of Religion.

Good luck with your sheep shows.

Brooke
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  #16  
Old 04-05-2015, 08:40 PM
wintergirl wintergirl is offline
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The sad thing is we are hurt by this in Indiana. Pence wanted to run for president and that is why he signed it. I don't think he can run for dog catcher now, at least not in Indiana.
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  #17  
Old 04-05-2015, 08:47 PM
Stray59 Stray59 is offline
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Thank you wintergirl - my point exactly.
If my orientation or right to get married or receiving protection under the law threatens your religion, marriage or protection under the law, you did not have a very strong religion, marriage or protection in the first place. How can giving me rights take anything away from anyone else? I just don't understand it........
Gosh, this did devolve into a "Gay Rant" didn't it. Sorry about that.
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  #18  
Old 04-05-2015, 09:30 PM
Paul Mc Paul Mc is offline
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Oh my. I could see this thread getting heated quickly. As a gay man, I can see all sides of the argument respectively. I may not agree with them, but I can understand and respect the underlining concerns nonetheless. Hope this thread remains civil though since this is a topic many people can get very passionate about for very different reasons.


Paul McMahon
Sent via iPhone
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  #19  
Old 04-05-2015, 09:46 PM
Stray59 Stray59 is offline
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Paul Mc - I totally agree - I was just venting last night, and then it led to this. I do appreciate everyone remaining respectful, and I know I can be blunt, but I really never intend to offend anyone. That is just not the type of person I am....and I do know that I do hit some buttons at times, but it is not out of anger or to be in your face. I try to just respond as directly as I can, but am not the "name-calling" type and do appreciate that the members here have always shown the same respect for me and this public forum......I think it is because we all love orchids, which by default means you are a good person, but that may just be me!
I am just sensitive right now as we are really concerned how this will effect the lives of the GLBT community here in Indiana....hopefully the changes to the law will keep everyone happy.
And I am also a little bewildered why, when Indiana simply drafted the same law that almost half of the States already have on the books, we became such a target, except for the possibility that those who wanted to see Pence fail at his run for whatever other office he wanted were the ones that blew this into a national debate.
I really hate politics.
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  #20  
Old 04-05-2015, 09:47 PM
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AnonYMouse AnonYMouse is offline
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I can't speak for Marty whose house this is.

I don't care if you rant. I may or may not support your opinions.

I think those who posted here are all adults. You (should) know and understand that this is a PUBLIC forum. People who would not normally respond will because the internet offers them anonymity.

Please remember when posting that this is a PUBLIC forum, viewable by people of all ages, religions, ethnicities, orientations, etc,. Your opinions and veiled barbs are now out there and hitting the wrong targets.

And if you really want to inflict harm, it just exposes you as the ______ you really are.

(Wonder why there is a problem with bullying?)
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"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." Hanlon’s Razor

I am not being argumentative. I am correcting you!

LoL Since when is science an opinion?
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