Global meltdown
Login
User Name
Password   


Registration is FREE. Click to become a member of OrchidBoard community
(You're NOT logged in)

menu menu

Sponsor
Donate Now
and become
Forum Supporter.

Global meltdown
Many perks!
<...more...>


Sponsor
 

Google


Fauna Top Sites
Register Global meltdown Members Global meltdown Global meltdown Today's PostsGlobal meltdown Global meltdown Global meltdown
LOG IN/REGISTER TO CLOSE THIS ADVERTISEMENT
Go Back   Orchid Board - Most Complete Orchid Forum on the web ! > >
View Poll Results: What are your thoughts on Global Warming
I've been planning to run for the hills and hide in a cave somewhere 7 12.28%
Hoping for the best but worried 29 50.88%
I knew something was up, but holy cr*p! I didn't know it was that bad 6 10.53%
Whats global warming???? 1 1.75%
They think they know alot, but I bet it will all be ok. 11 19.30%
Hogwash! No such thing as climate change! 3 5.26%
Voters: 57. This poll is closed

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-08-2007, 10:07 AM
Tindomul's Avatar
Tindomul Tindomul is offline
Moderator
 

Join Date: May 2005
Zone: 7b
Location: Queens, NY, & Madison County NC, US
Age: 45
Posts: 19,374
Default Global meltdown

I would like to guage awarness in the orchid community about global warming and how serious it really is. Comments on the issue are appreciated.

I for one think we are in deep doo-doo as I don't think any of our world leaders have any true interest in saving the planet ---> in saving us from ourselves.



Global meltdown | Environment | The Guardian


Global meltdown

Scientists fear that global warming will bring climatic turbulence, with changes coming in big jumps rather than gradually

Richard Alley's eyes glint as we sit in his office in the University of Pennsylvania discussing how fast global warming could cause sea levels to rise. The scientist sums up the state of knowledge: "We used to think that it would take 10,000 years for melting at the surface of an ice sheet to penetrate down to the bottom. Now we know it doesn't take 10,000 years; it takes 10 seconds."
That quote highlights most vividly why scientists are getting panicky about the sheer speed and violence with which climate change could take hold. They are realising that their old ideas about gradual change - the smooth lines on graphs showing warming and sea level rise and gradually shifting weather patterns - simply do not represent how the world's climate system works.
Dozens of scientists told me the same thing while I was researching my book The Last Generation. Climate change did not happen gradually in the past, and it will not happen that way in the future. Planet Earth does not do gradual change. It does big jumps; it works by tipping points.
The story of research into sea level rise is typical of how perceptions have changed in the past five years. The conventional view - you can still read it in reports from the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change - holds that sea levels will start to rise as a pulse of warming works its way gradually from the surface through the 2km- and 3km-thick ice sheets on Greenland and Antarctica, melting them. The ice is thick and the heat will penetrate only slowly. So we have hundreds, probably thousands, of years to make our retreat to higher ground.
Recent research, however, shows that idea is wholly wrong. Glaciologists forgot about crevasses. What is actually happening is that ice is melting at the surface and forming lakes that drain down into the crevasses. In 10 seconds, the water is at the base of the ice sheet, where it lubricates the join between ice and rock. Then the whole ice sheet starts to float downhill towards the ocean.
"These flows completely change our understanding of the dynamics of ice sheet destruction," says Alley. "Even five years ago, we didn't know about this."
This summer, lakes several kilometres across formed on the Greenland ice sheet, and drained away to the depths. Scientists measured how, within hours of the lakes forming, the vast ice sheets physically rose up, as if floating on water, and slid towards the ocean. That is why Greenland glaciers are flowing faster, and there are more icebergs breaking off into the Atlantic Ocean. That is why average sea level rise has increased from 2mm a year in the early 1990s to more than 3mm a year now.
Soon it could be a great deal more. Jim Hansen of Nasa, George Bush's top climate modeller, predicts that sea level rise will be 10 times faster within a few years, as Greenland destabilises. "Building an ice sheet takes a long time," he says. "But destroying it can be explosively rapid."
Alarmist? No. It has happened before, he says. During the final few centuries of the last ice age, the sea level rose 20 metres in 400 years, an average of 20 times faster than now. These were sudden, violent times. And the melting was caused by tiny wobbles in the Earth's orbit that changed the heat balance of the planet by only a fraction as much as our emissions of greenhouse gases are doing today.
Violent change
There is more evidence of abrupt and violent change, most of it culled from ice cores, lake sediments, tree rings and other natural archives of climate. We now know that the last ice age was not a stable cold era but near-permanent climate change. Towards the end, around 11,000 years ago, average temperatures in parts of the Arctic rose by 16C or more within a decade. Alley believes it happened within a single year, though he says the evidence in the ice cores is not precise enough to prove it.
All this comes as a surprise to us because, in the 10,000 or so years since the end of the last ice age, the climate has been, relatively speaking, stable. We have had warm periods and mini ice ages; but they were little compared with events before.
It is arguable that this rather benign world has been the main reason why our species was able to leave the caves and create the urban, industrial civilisation we enjoy today. Our complex society relies on our being able to plant crops and build cities, knowing that the rains will come and the cities will not be flooded by incoming tides. When that certainty fails, as when Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans last year, even the most sophisticated society is brought to its knees.
But there is a growing fear among scientists that, thanks to man-made climate change, we are about to return to a world of climatic turbulence, where tipping points are constantly crossed. Their research into the workings of the planet's ecosystems suggests why such sudden changes have happened in the past, and are likely again in future.
One driver of fast change in the past has been abrupt movements of carbon between the atmosphere and natural reservoirs such as the rainforests and the oceans. Hundreds of billions of tonnes of carbon dioxide can burp into the atmosphere, apparently at the flick of a switch.
That is why the Met Office's warning that the Amazon rainforest could die by mid-century, releasing its stored carbon from trees and soils into the air, is so worrying. And why we should take serious note when Peter Cox, professor of climate systems at Exeter University, warns that the world's soils, which have been soaking up carbon for centuries, may be close to a tipping beyond which they will release it all again.
Other threats lurk on the horizon. We know that there are trillions of tonnes of methane, a virulent greenhouse gas, trapped in permafrost and in sediments beneath the ocean bed. There are fears this methane may start leaking out as temperatures warm. It seems this happened 55m years ago, when gradual warming of the atmosphere penetrated to the ocean depths and unlocked the methane, which caused a much greater warming that resulted in the extinction of millions of species.
All this suggests that, in one sense, the climate sceptics are right. They say the future is much less certain than the climate models predict. They have a point. We know less than we think. But the sceptics are wrong in concluding that the models have been exaggerating the threat. Far from it. Evidence emerging in the past five years or so suggests the presence of many previously unknown tipping points that could trigger dangerous climate change.
Can we call a halt? Hansen says we have 10 years to turn things round and escape disaster. James Lovelock, author of the Gaia theory, which considers the Earth a self-regulated living being, reckons we are already past the point of no return. I don't buy that. For one thing, there is no single point of no return. We have probably passed some, but not others. The water may be lapping at our ankles, but I am not ready to head for the hills yet. I'm an optimist.
· Fred Pearce is author of The Last Generation - How Nature Will Take Her Revenge for Climate Change, Eden Project Books, £12.99. To order a copy for £11.99 with free UK p&p call 0870 836 0875 or go to guardian.co.uk/bookshop
__________________
"We must not look at goblin men,
We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots?"

Goblin Market
by Christina Georgina Rossetti
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-08-2007, 10:48 AM
tbentl tbentl is offline
Member
 

Join Date: May 2007
Zone: 8b
Location: Tallahassee
Posts: 57
Default

I realize that autos, industry, etc. are a cause for the global warming, but I'm more convinced that the cause is cyclical too. There appears to be an overabundance of data on everything for everything.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-08-2007, 03:54 PM
goodgollymissmolly goodgollymissmolly is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Feb 2007
Zone: 6a
Posts: 464
Default

I suspect that we are ruining the planet, but I don't expect it to stop. It isn't what we do, but instaed the number of people doing it. Overpopulation is the problem and nobody will touch that issue with a ten foot pole.

In the 60's the Population Bomb and other books caused a long term reduction in the American birth rate. I guess we really responded to the threat. However, with the help of ignorance and the Pope the remainder of the world kept right on making them babies.

Now the US is said to suffer because we have too few workers and have to send our jobs to China or import Indians and Mexicans to make up for the shortfall. It is not possible to reduce sex and apparently not possible to reduce the results of same. So the human part of the planet is doomed. I guess bugs will go on...maybe, maybe not...who knows. I guess I'll get to depart this world before the starvation and disease get too bad. Oh Well!!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-08-2007, 04:05 PM
quiltergal quiltergal is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Apr 2007
Zone: 8b
Location: Southern Oregon
Age: 70
Posts: 6,016
Default

I think it's really interesting that the thing that surely has the most impact on our current climate has been pretty much ignored. Isn't anybody interested in the effects the SUN has on our climate and weather patterns?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-08-2007, 04:02 PM
Magnus A Magnus A is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Zone: 7a
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Age: 51
Posts: 638
Default

No alternative for me!
I would like to se the alternative:

I knew it was realy bad but I will try to make it right!

/Magnus
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-08-2007, 04:12 PM
watsgw1155 watsgw1155 is offline
Member
 

Join Date: May 2007
Zone: 9b
Location: Port St Lucie, Florida
Age: 66
Posts: 45
Global meltdown Male
Cool Global Warming

Make no mistake; anyone who has lived in FL, IL, CO, CA and pretty much any other state has seen a change - especially when it comes to plant life. If people haven't noticed, then they aren't paying attention. Stop listening to the corrupt petroleum-fed Administration in Washington DC and open your eyes.

Global warming is real and not to be taken lightly. We have turned a blind eye toward the situation for far too long - just like Reagan did with AIDS and we all know how that turned out.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-09-2007, 09:03 PM
gmdiaz gmdiaz is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Apr 2007
Zone: 4a
Location: Bailey, Colorado
Posts: 2,408
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by watsgw1155 View Post
Make no mistake; anyone who has lived in FL, IL, CO, CA and pretty much any other state has seen a change - especially when it comes to plant life.
So true, we've had terrible droughts and lots of wildfires. The landscape in my neck of the woods is changing for sure. Ironically, I've heard that we can actually expect more snow but that overall the water table will be lower than usual. I expect that to continue.

The forests are thinning out a bit. . .only the toughest, most established trees seem to make it. While this alarms me, we were way over-wooded (that can't be a word!) due to previous year's policies to prevent wildlfires. . .so we were already out of balance going into the climate changes.

The world will balance out in time but oh my God, the effects it will have on all living things. I think we have squandered our most precious gifts & I worry about what the world will be like for future generations. I don't think we have a real clue about the degree of change coming. I think it could well be a real shocker. . .we'll get on the ball at the last moment and. . .

I guess we'll all do what we can and more than we thought we could. . .we'll be as strong as we need to be.

Shame about the USA's lack of leadership. . .and I mean that. What a terrible time in history to have this administration in power. I do not like the direction that we're going.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-09-2007, 09:25 PM
Marco Marco is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 709
Global meltdown Male
Talking

We're all going to roast and all the folks down at wall street who only care about an increase in net profit and improve efficiency will realize that all their efforts to get a sweet bonus will be all for nothing because their push for efficiency and cost saving procedures requires building new machines, new cheaper paper, new better bulbs, new faster better computers adds to the global warming issue. And where we do put all the old machines, paper, bulbs, and computers?

I was watching this episode on TV about the new green line trains here in New York City. The new trains are fantastic. They're quick, cool in the summer and warm in the winter, and they have the nifty energy saving fluorescent bulbs which provides for great lighting. When it came to the point as to where they dump the old trains. Well that was straight into the Hudson. And their rational was "It will provide a home for the fish in the water" Those guys deserve a medal. What they failed to mention was the metal corrodes. Rust in the water where fish that we eat live. This is the same water that coastal cities purify so we can get some drinking water. And the solution to purify is to get XYZ Company to build some high tech water purifier where more greenhouse gases are made in producing the product than how much the purifier really helps us.

Cheers to capitalism. I love you. You provided me with a way in which to work and earn my way into a better living and a higher tax bracket. You have provided me a working toilet that efficiently and effectively flushes my problems away with the simple push of a lever. It makes my nights in a state of drunken stupor so much easier. You provided the 32" LCD TV in my room that I use to watch the gazelles roam in Africa on discovery channel, anime on the cartoon channel, and some cartoons on the Nikolodeon channel too. You provided the lamps that I use to help my keep my neos healthy and living. You provided me with the insecticides I've used recently to get rid of my mite problem. Some of which went down my sink. Some of which I inhaled because I'm trying to do my piece in helping out the environment.

Cheers to Ben Bernake. I love you and I love what you've done with the federal rate cuts. Your dunce cap is a whole lot taller than mine I am deeply jealous. Maybe you sniffed a whole lot more insecticide than I have. You've done us all a great help. You're my hero.

Cheers to me and you and all the other folks that live in a modern world who can't live without the luxuries we own.

I love my life, capitalism and all, and all the things that make it simple. I'm only a single thread in the complicated tapestry that is this problem of Global Warming. I accept my fate and I live happily knowing that I may have to endure the problems that entail this life of luxury.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-08-2007, 04:33 PM
Ross Ross is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Sep 2006
Zone: 5a
Posts: 9,277
Default

Funny thing is there are just two groups of people causing all the problems. There are the consumers who have a lust for fossil fuel consuming vehicles and processes (such as barbeque grills) and the folks who don't understand that clear-cutting their forests will one day spell their doom. It's pretty easy to blame those who live in central america/northern south america where the largest block of frorests remain, but we in the US are just as much to blame (as are other countries and continents) where more temperate forests have been reduced to subdivisions to provide yuppies a place to live. Ian McHarg, in his rather eye-opening book "Design With Nature", proposed that human beings live on the land base least important for farming or forests (like mountain areas). How strange that was, and I bet very few here have ever heard of this book, because it got little press - see it doesn't support the American "make a buck" attitude. Want me to get on a soap box, or has this been enough?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-09-2007, 02:02 PM
shakkai shakkai is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Winchester, UK
Posts: 2,993
Default

I've been reading books on Self-Sufficiency to prepare - because the time is coming, and its probably coming within my lifetime. I was just commenting this morning that our weather now always seems to the 'something-est' - this past summer was the wettest, last winter was the warmest, the summer before that was the hottest, the winter before that was the driest. Wonder what this winter will be?

Ross, thanks for pointing out that book... I've not read it, but its now on the list! I'm currently reading "A Handmade Life" by W.M.S. Coperthwaite - this one doesn't support the 'make a buck' attitude either. I think overall consumerism has a lot more to answer for than just global warming.

Step on up on that soap box!!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Paph. Global Challenger x gratrixianum littlefrog Cypripedium Alliance - Paphiopedilum 2 01-08-2007 09:58 PM
Environmental change? Bolero Off Topic - Totally 31 11-13-2006 04:38 AM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:45 PM.

© 2007 OrchidBoard.com
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.37 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2025 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2025 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Clubs vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.