This little piggy.. um kind of weird!

[daemondamian]

Originally Posted by Djarum Black

Thats just scarey..

But speaking of horrible people and what they do to animals. I remember a couple years back some mean people were breeding cats to have very short front paws like rabbits. So they would be forced to hop everywhere they moved. I think most died because they could not properly care for themselves or walk.
I can't remember what they were called. Some kind of stupid fluffy name. I thought that was a horror show too!

Eeeek! That's awful!!!! If there's one thing that defines me it is that I love animals and I hate cruelty or mistreatment of animals

[daemondamian]

Originally Posted by smartie2000

I can also mention that my high school has a preserved kitten with two heads....

It does occur in animals occasionally

My teacher told me in a high school here (was it mine?) a student brought in a calf with two heads for disection once it died

I saw a turtle with two heads on a David Letterman show a little while ago, think you have trouble making decisions for yourself everyday in life - imagine two heads on the same body wanting to go in different directions!

[daemondamian]

Originally Posted by smartie2000

that is sad!

Ornamental goldfishes are sort of like that too when I think of it... I can't belive I keep buying them to replace the dead ones. I have to stop and buy fish that have more natural bodies so they don't always die. In the wild these mutants would already have been culled off...

Ok before I got into orchids I was an aquarium guy [I'm not some qualified aquatic biologist or anything but I like to think I learned a thing or two ].. tell me what sort of a setup do you have for your goldfish?

[smartie2000]

I normal freshwater set up?....it's 80 gallon with a filter

I do keep normal bodied fish and they are much more virgorous.
I have like an estimated 300 gallon for koi and a 29gallon for cichlids, and I once kept normal looking goldfish in a ceramic bowl just fine (like how the ancient chinese did it centuries ago)

I think I can conclude that his breeding for round shapes on goldfish are making them harder to keep. I have already started making my own food because I read comercial food have been causing trouble making them float. I havent had any floating problems since my own food for 3/4 a year. They were doing fine with this new food until I allowed the water to get slightly more dirty than usually...lets give me dropsy and more dropsy! and when they die the water get dirty and if I'm too busy to change it then lets die some more! Sorry four fish died recently and they were all my large ones.

I do not think I can keep these guys in cermamic bowls like I did with normal bodied goldfish. And it is somewhat of a sick business because I am sure I am not the only one with dead ornamental goldfish

[daemondamian]

Originally Posted by smartie2000

I normal freshwater set up?....it's 80 gallon with a filter

I do keep normal bodied fish and they are much more virgorous.
I have like an estimated 300 gallon for koi and a 29gallon for cichlids, and I once kept normal looking goldfish in a ceramic bowl just fine (like how the ancient chinese did it centuries ago)

I think I can conclude that his breeding for round shapes on goldfish are making them harder to keep. I have already started making my own food because I read comercial food have been causing trouble making them float. I havent had any floating problems since my own food for 3/4 a year. They were doing fine with this new food until I allowed the water to get slightly more dirty than usually...lets give me dropsy and more dropsy! and when they die the water get dirty and if I'm too busy to change it then lets die some more! Sorry four fish died recently and they were all my large ones.

I do not think I can keep these guys in cermamic bowls like I did with normal bodied goldfish. And it is somewhat of a sick business because I am sure I am not the only one with dead ornamental goldfish

smartie2000, yep you know your stuff and I have experienced dropsy in the past I hate it!

Whenever some one says their goldfish dying I'm always thinking- what size body of water are they in [? as they can grow big plus a bowl has limited water to air surface contact, not much space to swim in or for a filtration system], do they do water changes, over feed the fish and are they overcrowded.

I have kept them before in good health [and I also I had a huge pond once that I built myself with them in it where they grew huge and bred like crazy] but the last ones I had I sold when I moved house.

Here is what a book I have says on goldfish:

"Captive breeding has resulted in some, to our way of thinking, horrendous strains being produced. Some have enlarged, bulbous eyes (celestials and bubble-eyes) and these require special care, ensuring that there are no sharp objects on which the fishes can damage themselves. Yet others have been bred to enhance cancerous growths on their heads (lionheads) [my emphasis added]."

Also:
"A twin-tailed goldfish is, again, a fish for the aquarium. Hobbyists, especially in the Far East, have selectively bred these fishes to such an extent that many can no longer swim properly because of the excess drag produced by their over-elongated finnage."

I've read Koi need lots of room, immaculate water and a heavy filtration system?

I've kept some cichlids before angels. I've bred them, corydoras, bristlenose almost got there with honey gouramis but now I've only got one tank a wider than usual 3fter with pencil fish, glowlight tetras, corydoras, borneo suckermouth catfish, an old male bristlenose, 3 clown loaches and a sole surviving female emperor tetra.

It has two cannister filters [one running though a cylinder fed Co2 reactor] 120 Watts fluros lighting, a very fine gravel substrate and planted with crypts, anubias, swords, java moss/fern, aponogeton because I got sick of trimming those fast growing stem plants!

I don't do as much water changes as I should on it but then again I only feed them 4-5 days out of every 7 days.

[Shadow]

One more sad thread. How do you find this information about poor little creatures? Well, I don't want to know. I don't want to find one more by myself.

[daemondamian]

Originally Posted by Shadow

One more sad thread. How do you find this information about poor little creatures? Well, I don't want to know. I don't want to find one more by myself.

Shadow,
yep it is sad . Human beings the most powerful beings on Planet Earth are also the most destructive and sometimes the most stupid.

Being informed, though is a good thing.. now you know about why goldfish often die and also if you were to ever go and buy one you could make an informed choice not only in whether you wanted to buy one with say a cancerous growth or other purposely bred deformity but also the best conditions in which to care for them.

[smartie2000]

Most of their problems occur because of their rounded bodies and not eyes or growths on their head or twinned tails. Their organs are in a different position than their wild ancestors.

I can compared these guys to toy dogs when people don't understand...toy dogs also require a lot of care and have problems

[daemondamian]

Originally Posted by smartie2000

Most of their problems occur because of their rounded bodies and not eyes or growths on their head or twinned tails. Their organs are in a different position than their wild ancestors.

I can compared these guys to toy dogs when people don't understand...toy dogs also require a lot of care and have problems

Thanks for enlightening me on that, I had no idea!