Reality check

[Royal]

I just toss them. I wonder how many gallons of water, phosphates, surfactants, etc. go down the drain to save a plastic bag. I wonder what the energy cost is to make another plastic bag vs. the environmental impact of washing them out. I wonder how the lifetime energy costs of tupperware (manufacture and cleaning) compare to one-time use baggies. I know it feels good to be a part of a movement, but employing supposed "green" practices doesn't always translate to less resources used or less environmental damage.

Don't get me wrong, I conserve. I recycle, compost, harvest rainwater, and try to be efficient in all of my day to day consumption activities. I always have. It has always seemed to make environmental and economical sense to me. But what gets me, is conservation in the name of being "green", and at the expense of other resources. The term "green" has been bastardized into a marketing tool. We are almost to the point where you don't need to change ANYTHING about your lifestyle, just buy products with a leaf on them and you can feel good about ourselves.

It's been going on for years. There is always a cost to the alternative. Diesels were shunned as smog emitters, but now they are praised for the higher MPG. Cloth diapers save landfill space, but require the energy, soap, water, and wastewater treatment costs to wash (and eventually they will find their way into landfills). We wouldn't dump a can full of trash on the ground just to recycle one can, would we? There are plenty that would, because recycling is green, and these days being green is more important than actually conserving our resources or protecting the environment.

All this being said, I commend you all for attempting to do your part. I wouldn't expect any less from this group. We just need to think about how and why a "green" activity is better for us, and the earth.

[Ross]

Originally Posted by RoyalOrchids

I just toss them. I wonder how many gallons of water, phosphates, surfactants, etc. go down the drain to save a plastic bag. I wonder what the energy cost is to make another plastic bag vs. the environmental impact of washing them out. I wonder how the lifetime energy costs of tupperware (manufacture and cleaning) compare to one-time use baggies. I know it feels good to be a part of a movement, but employing supposed "green" practices doesn't always translate to less resources used or less environmental damage.

Don't get me wrong, I conserve. I recycle, compost, harvest rainwater, and try to be efficient in all of my day to day consumption activities. I always have. It has always seemed to make environmental and economical sense to me. But what gets me, is conservation in the name of being "green", and at the expense of other resources. The term "green" has been bastardized into a marketing tool. We are almost to the point where you don't need to change ANYTHING about your lifestyle, just buy products with a leaf on them and you can feel good about ourselves.

It's been going on for years. There is always a cost to the alternative. Diesels were shunned as smog emitters, but now they are praised for the higher MPG. Cloth diapers save landfill space, but require the energy, soap, water, and wastewater treatment costs to wash (and eventually they will find their way into landfills). We wouldn't dump a can full of trash on the ground just to recycle one can, would we? There are plenty that would, because recycling is green, and these days being green is more important than actually conserving our resources or protecting the environment.

All this being said, I commend you all for attempting to do your part. I wouldn't expect any less from this group. We just need to think about how and why a "green" activity is better for us, and the earth.

That's what I told my wife and "that's when the fight started" Seriously, I started this post to get us all thinking of the effects of our decisions. I see nothing wrong with recycling stuff like milk jugs. The cost to recycle these into other plastic products is pretty low compared to the cost of starting new and plastic never breaks down. I think recycling newsprint makes sense. I think recycling glass (at least clear glass) makes sense. I definitely think recycling all aluminum makes sense, and perhaps steel (not sure yet on that one.) Reusing certain products like zip-Lock bags doesn't make sense to me. I think the risks outweigh the savings (just my opinion.) If I were to be real concerned, I would use other wrapping products or storage containers - glass come mind . In the realm of computers we have an even more important debate: computer monitors. Even LCD monitors are starting to become a plague of landfills. Yes there are companies that "recycle" computer parts, but most of the highly toxic stuff is bypassed and primarily the easy-to-reuse stuff like magnetic media is salvaged (including the data on it ) Plastic cases, copper traces on printed circuit boards, etc. is all passed along to landfills (in most cases.) What about auto tires? What about auto bodies? What about demolition debris? What about storm cleanup debris? All this seems to eclipse baggies to me Now, off my soapbox (sorry folks.)

[Royal]

Whew! I thought I was going to catch some heat from you, Ross. You said it more succinctly. Other things "eclipse" the baggie problem. That's not to say that reducing your baggies usage or re-using them isn't beneficial to the landfill. We just need to evaluate how an activity may affect all resources used, upstream and downstream.

[Jadeco]

Can I put zip lock baggies in with the recycling? - Yahoo! Answers

[cirillonb]

I congratulate Ross and ~Royal for have a realistic approach to this. I previously expressed the concern for safety in reusing food bags of any kind.
As I mentioned above, there is nothing wrong with using glass containers for little storage but a baggie is great for small stuff especially if you want it portable.
Nick

[libby]

I throw them away. I'm too much of a germ freak to reuse them for food. However, I don't use them very often - a box of zip-lock bags will last me a loooong time. I usually store left-overs in tupperware/rubbermaid type containers.

[Ross]

Originally Posted by Jadeco

Can I put zip lock baggies in with the recycling? - Yahoo! Answers

Good post! The answer is: "Depends". In my case, no! They go to the landfill (which I want you all to know has an EPA problem right now that we county landowners will pay for via taxes.) The issue still is partly volume and partly (well, mostly) toxicity. Two things I want to leave you all with (not necessarily related to this thread, but then it's my thread ) "Dilution is not the solution to pollution." (Say this one enough times you get the idea.) This relates to dumping stuff in waterways, ground areas, oceans, whatever, simply because if we spread it thin enough, it's not a problem. Wrong! Second: "If I can't see it, it's not my problem". Maybe this pertains to this thread more closely. If we squish it small enough, if we only have a small amount of garbage compared to a whole dump, then it's not so bad! Wrong! While I wouldn't think twice of dumping a baggy in the trash, I am totally aware of the collective problem over time. I have been to our landfill (have you all?) several times over the last 30+ years we have lived here and seen how it has grown. There are many counties in Michigan that cannot even get a permit to open or expand a landfill anymore. One baggie is pretty small, but 10 million are pretty large. But then again 10,000 tires or auto bodies are even bigger. Most of this discussion, in the end, will come down to personal values. What do we wish to give up and at what cost will we try to protect the environment for our offspring. We (in my county) have a vote coming up, so it got me thinking. Where are our values overall. Small things like washing baggies, or large things like hauling truckloads of recyclicals to a recycling center? Now I'm off my soapbox second time (promise ).

[shakkai]

Royal, You are SO right! Although I think that anything that raises awareness is a good thing.. sometimes those are not well thought out and are not really the best things we could be doing.

[Ross]

Originally Posted by shakkai

Royal, You are SO right! Although I think that anything that raises awareness is a good thing.. sometimes those are not well thought out and are not really the best things we could be doing.

Shannon, please elaborate. I know (or I think I know) where you are coming from (our RO water discussion ) and I'd be interested in a European perspective, because this is truly a global issue that needs some real values placed on it.

[shakkai]

Ross, reducing consumption is probably the only surefire way to making a real difference.

Not really applicable to plastic baggies... but this is one way that I have found to try to keep things out of landfill:

The Freecycle Network