Environmental change?

[Bolero]

Who else is concerned about environmental change?

It's unbelievable in Australia, I can burn here in 15 minutes when it used to take me hours. Then there is destruction of the natural habitat and we keep raping the land. Are we willing to give up our "quality" of life in order to save the planet or will we keep going the way we are?

I noticed an article in time magazine a couple of months ago which says that the arctic circle is melting.......in fact that it's melting so much that the strong swimming polar bears are drowning due to the massive distance between ice flows.

Are we killing ourselves off? I wonder if there will be a planet for our children in 20 or 30 years?

I am very worried.

Darren

[Mahon]

Darren,

To give you a short answer: no, we are not in any danger, nor or we killing ourselves off.

The whole theory upon global warming is complicated, but another short answer: it doesn't actually exist the way the "scientists" are explaining it. We are noticing a small raise in the temperature on earth, but there is a different explanation; the sun has been hotter than it ever has been.

I have to get going to a Navy meeting, but if you have any other questions, I will have the answers. In general, Global Warming is not of any concern, nor does it exist as the scientists say they do... ttyl, =)

-Pat

PS: I think the Artic may be melting, but again, because of the sun's increase in energy. But I also think the Antartic is accumulating more ice than ever before.

[Bolero]

I did see one report that also stated that a lot of the temps are measured around major cities. Therefore they suggest that due to the increase in the amount of "cement" and the increased number of cars would skew the results as they generate a lot of heat as well.

Why do I burn faster now than I used too?

[Mahon]

Darren,

That is true, the cement and black tops do reflect alot of radiation upwards... but this will raise the temperature in a certain area... this will have nothing to do with affecting the entire world...

As for you burning faster, there are many factors that cause this... the first one I believe is because the sun is getting hotter (the sun gets hotter, so it produces more radiation). Another reason could be your skin's sensitivity to the sun after a period of time of exposure or no exposure... yet another reason could be the time of year (seasons), when the sun's positioning on the earth has changed. There are many things that could be causing the burning... I would recommend wearing a shirt and try and keep covered as much as possible when in the sun.

Basically, it is the sun's changes which are responsible for the earth's changes... we do not have ourselves to blame... if we start changing fuel sources, we will realize how inefficient they are... to produce the fuel saving materials, we require more energy then the material produced could possibly save... =)

-Pat

[ospylac]

Darren,
Google Ozone hole increases and you'll some interesting recent data. It's bigger than ever, especially over your part of the globe. The Big Oil disinformation lobby is working overtime, pumping millions into propaganda. Yes, solar flares are at an all time high, but they've been that way for 20 years and do not explain the increase in temperatures we are experiencing. It's real, and yes, some of us are worried. Unfortunately some of us still have our heads in ostrich position.

[Bolero]

Thanks for the tip on that.

You're right of course, it is a huge worry. Our dams are down to 28% here and they service 300,000 people. Things are so dry around here I am starting to feel guilty when I water my plants and this is all a result of the planet heating up and weather patterns changing.

Signs are quite ominous and we might all have to reduce our quality of life to save the planet. We will all have to make sacrifices.

The reason I started this thread was to get people thinking about the issue more and maybe create some interesting discussion.

Thanks

[ospylac]

Bolero,
Thanks for starting this thread,
The topic is'nt an easy one in the US.
People actively avoid it to keep a neutral, nopolitical space.
Our country is so polarized right now that it seems like the two factions are hearly two completely different versions of what's going on in the world. It's tragic, and its paralying us from moving forward on what we clearly need to be doing (ie: a whole lot more than the status quo). You're right, it will take work and sacrifice. The reality is, if we don't work at it now we just procrastinate the problem and makes for whole lot more work later.

[Marco]

Not to be a buzz kill. Just my opinion I think the ozones gonna deplete because of the loss of natural counteragents for pollution, keeling curve is going up at increasing rate year by year. Unless people start sticking their mouths on car exhaust pipes to act as a natural filter to prevent all the junk going into the air, and lets not forget the industiral portion of many economies that produce cars, appliances, plastics and all there unnatural devices that produce byproducts that also go into the air. Then the junk going into the air is going into the water lets not forget the landfills just just accumulate garbage as well at an upward curve. Again Unless people go there and start eating that stuff its stayings. Unfortuntely directly or indirectly we're adding to this. again at an upward curve because the rate production is going totally overshadows the rate things are broken down. And lets not forget about the fact that medicines have so advanced that people are living longer which great....but again that means more babies and less mortality..which good...but that also leads into more consumption. Think of the new cars, appliances and cellphones, baby strollers...etc..etc.. that come out every year. Ever wonder where they go and ever wonder how their produced? I was watching this special late in the morning about where the old subway cars of new york at put....their tossed in the water and the dumbasses on the TV go "its a way of producing a natural reef cause over time things grow etc..etc" what a load of crap cause they failed to explain that eventually the trains in the water rust due to the salts and that rust goes into the fish which we eventually eat. what a nice way of getting this out of the way huh?Ok now what if the garbage don't go into the water? what about the runoff from landfills. Ever wonder where they go? Ok the water we drink is clean. Now how does that get started. The machinery used to clean the water is produced somwhere. Again more by products. At this rate the worlds end by a massive die off from either global warming where life on earth is gonna fry and those surviving are gonna be all mutants from all the radiation coming in from the sun and any other uv..gamma whatever waves and rays or were gonna slowly die off cause we're gonna choke on our own excrements (by products from all the luxuries we enjoy right now including this computer im typing on) in about 50-75 years. Limited natural resources and unlimited human desires...so now the questions goes....who's willing to let go of those luxuries for the better of the whole?......what a beautiful thing aint it?

[Mahon]

I must disagree... since we have research which shows that yes, Greenland is melting, but it is accumulating more water (snow, ice) inland (which is not being told by those who are for the global warming theory)... also, Antarctica has accumulated lots of ice, and the Arctic has always been a thin piece of ice, but is not showing change... the polar bear populations, I believe, are steady and have not changed. It was mentioned in at least one paper that Polar Bears are drowning because of us humans.

Also, there were times in the late 1800's of an ice age scare, and then the early 1900's an increased heating of the earth, then I believe in the 1970's, another ice age scare, and now back to heating of the earth...

Here is an excerpt from Lance Birk's 'The Last Orchid Hunter'

(reffering to global warming)"It is a ridiculous concept of course, but the negative consequences of vastly elevated global temperatures scare the uninformed, particularly when the positive benefits are concealed and when it serves a political purpose. Unfortunately, there will continue to be reports issued by individuals whose microscopic investigations can prove its drastic consequences are imminent. Those local phenomena will continue to be illustrated, yet nowhere will be seen counter-balancing effects of lowering temperatures in other parts of the globe. Minor fluctuations in the earth’s temperatures have been recorded for centuries, many of which last for decades."

Here is another good point brought up by Lance Birk in the same chapter;

"...how many people do you think it would it take to urinate in the oceans to make an iota of a difference in the quality of seawater?"

How many people does it take to pollute the entire atmosphere? There are other interesting points Lance Birk discusses, but I would hate to start putting it all here, as it is his work. Basically, the idea behind the global warming theories is to benefit those who have the "research" on global warming existing as they say it is... The earth goes through patterns and changes, and it corrects itself... the earth cannot be compared to a terrarium, as the earth is part of something bigger, which is part of something else, etc., etc.... I am tired, so hopefully everything fit together smoothly and makes sense...

-Pat

[Mahon]

Originally Posted by Marco

Not to be a buzz kill. Just my opinion I think the ozones gonna deplete because of the loss of natural counteragents for pollution, keeling curve is going up at increasing rate year by year.

...not to be another buzz kill, but ozone (O3), is a waste product from car exhaust...