Example: Why politics & religion aren't welcome here

[K-Sci]

Originally Posted by YetAnotherOrchidNut

Me too. :-) I cant take credit for it tho, it goes back quite some time. Wikipedia covers it well

I like it too because Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence is a defeater to atheists who invoke the absence of evidence fallacy as evidence that God does not exist.

-Keith

[Grautier]

Ohjeezzes

[Dimples]

Originally Posted by YetAnotherOrchidNut

I would say that in the absence of contraindications you should give some credence to folk knowledge like this. At worst it wont hurt, and best it has foundation and will do good.

On the face of it, this is fine. However, given the lack of basic scientific literacy in the general population these days, I would disagree on the implications that the worst case is that folk remedies won't hurt a given situation.

Most people did not learn how to correctly comprehend the implications/application of scientific concepts or research results, even when presented with clear evidence. So, even presented with clear contraindications, they may proceed with the folk remedy simply because "it can't hurt".

Folk wisdom - adding lime to garden soil each year.
It's common wisdom that is shared freely by well-meaning people, yet in my area of the country doing so would have disastrous effects. Even with management practices to help lower the pH, our soil pH is pushing 8. Our municipal water has a pH around 8, and well water pH can be higher. Adding lime would further increase the soil pH.

People here still add lime to their soil because that's what they were told to do. They don't understand why they're doing it or what it will do to their soil aside from "sweetening" it, and they don't seem to care enough to find out.

Folk wisdom in the hands of cautious, thoughtful people is one thing. In the hands of the masses, it can be harmful.

A cut area on a plant will dry and callous over without any additional interventions. Second to that, suggesting sulfur powder would be my choice. It has significant evidence supporting its fungicidal/antibacterial properties, is cheaper per pound than cinnamon, and nobody is going to use up the last of it making toast.

My vote is that in the absence of evidence it's best to do nothing until you have more data.

[K-Sci]

Originally Posted by Dimples

My vote is that in the absence of evidence it's best to do nothing until you have more data.

That could be described as paralysis by analysis.

-Keith

[Dimples]

Analysis paralysis implies one is *unable* to take action when action is required due to a psychological block, typically resulting from overthinking.

Choosing to do nothing until data supports the need for the making of a choice is commonly practiced by the medical profession and should be more commonly practiced by most of us.

Waiting and watching when data is lacking is often the best course of action, but most people in our society are unable to tolerate ambiguity as an outcome and fail to grasp the logic at play behind no action being the appropriate action.

[isurus79]

Folk knowledge in orchid growing?! Unless you're growing one of the East Asian species that has been cultivated for a looooong time (I'm thinking of a few Cymbidiums, Vanda falcata, Dendrobium monofiliforme), there really isn't folk knowledge. Just outdated techniques (e.g. watering before fertilizing, bloom boosters, etc.) that no longer apply to modern growing.

Also, I'd like to point out the damage to the world caused by folk remedies. Using rhino horn, shark fin soup, and many, many other folk remedies cause massive damage to our ecosystems based on the premise that various animal parts will cause some sort of miracle reaction in the body than never comes to fruition.

---------- Post added at 09:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:58 PM ----------

Originally Posted by K-Sci

I like it too because Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence is a defeater to atheists who invoke the absence of evidence fallacy as evidence that God does not exist.

-Keith

You certainly gave this atheist a good chuckle.

I have to say, you're really laying your political beliefs on thick at this point. A weird comment about CRT in your signature, "defeater to atheists" in this thread, and a comment in another thread about vaccines not working on covid. Is it possible for you to cut the political nonsense and just talk orchids?

[Dimples]

Normally I wouldn't go here, but it is Martin Luther King Jr. day so it feels appropriate.

The correct MLK quote is:
"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." - Martin Luther King Jr.

If one is to quote a figure like MLK, make sure you quote his words in the same context in which he said them. Missatributing his words for different purposes is disrespectful.

He was not speaking about people in general. He was speaking about his (and by extension all) black children (and the future black community at large) one day living in a society where the color of their skin will not negatively influence or limit the choices available to them, the treatment received from others, and all of the other barriers currently presented by society and life.

[K-Sci]

Originally Posted by Dimples

The correct MLK quote is:
"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." - Martin Luther King Jr.

These are two different quotes.
Edit: Equally applicable he also said: "Darkeness cannot drive our darkness; only light cannot do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." And "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about the things that matter."

-Keith

[Dimples]

What is the source of the quote you're using? A different speech? Because I could not find it referenced in an attributed work from MLK, only online as a free-floating quote with no references.

It is true that MLK spoke of the desire and dream for peace, for love, of the need for the type of systemic change that would better the lives of those without power, without influence, those that were and still are, being intentionally held back and limited by the fabric of our society.

The same society that ultimately killed him for his words and the changes they were bringing about.

He preached nonviolent direct action for change including the use of civil disobedience, AND the imperative to protect one's self from the violence dished out by white society at large. He armed himself and encouraged others to do the same if they felt the need.

The obfuscation of his message and misuse of his words for purposes other than what he intended is a problem.

It's not unlike the difference between "hey let's eat Grandma" and "hey let's eat, Grandma". Same words, two very different meanings. To knowingly allow the implication of the wrong meaning when the author's use was clear, is again, incredibly disrespectful.

If you need to co-opt the words of a man to give credibility to the furthering of your beliefs, maybe your beliefs need a second look. Either that or find someone to quote that is actually in favor of what you support. There are a LOT of people around these days vocal about their anti-CRT feelings that you can quote. Some of them are even politicians.

(underlined text are hyperlinks)

[Clawhammer]

Disgusting to use an edited MLK quote paired with calling CRT racist. I can't imagine being so fragile and so invested in white supremacy that you just want to ignore true history and create a bunch of fairytales that America is without sin. Pathetic bringing it into this forum.

Believing in the "CRT in public schools" boogyman is all I need to know to understand your mindset.