Japanese terrestrials 2023

[Subrosa]

Originally Posted by Roberta

I'll definitely be watching for mold... the notes from Kusamono do mention to check occasionally, remove any that show it. But they do need a little moisture. I grow a couple of warm-growing Habaneria (medusa and rhodocheila) and I give the bare pots a squirt of water about once a week (and have had no rot problem) People who keep those too dry end up killing them. I have learned - the hard way of course - that dormant doesn't necessarily mean "dry", and that some things that go dormant need to stay sopping wet in winter, chilly on my patio (Cynorkis gibbosa, for example) These Japanese terrestrials are a whole new adventure... but thinking about their native environment, I have to come to the conclusion that they not only tolerate some moisture when they are cold and dormant, but require it. Go back to some of the posts from Subrosa, who has a bog garden that includes some of these growing outdoors in a climate with real winter - they are certainly cold and damp when they are dormant.

I killed Pecteilis radiata and Ponerorchis graminifolia a couple times trying to winter them indoors. The first time the tubers dessicated and died because I kept them too dry, the second time they rotted from too much moisture. When I put a tuber of each in the bog garden along with x Enomotoe I was thinking they'd likely die anyway if I brought them in, so what the heck, why not try? I was amazed when all 3 came back the next spring, and more amazed that the graminifolia had come back from multiple new tubers. This year I counted at least 8 separate P. radiata plants. In the Bay area, an in ground set up might still work for these, but I suspect that SoCal would absolutely be too hot.

[Roberta]

These are definitely a stretch for me... they'll only have a chance in the 'fridge. If that doesn't work, then they are not to be. Winters are 'way too warm. Even a cool one... most nights are above 40 deg F and days above 60. And sometimes there are episodes of summer-like temps. So this is a "How far can I push the envelope?" exercise. I'll know the answer next spring.

[Subrosa]

Originally Posted by Roberta

These are definitely a stretch for me... they'll only have a chance in the 'fridge. If that doesn't work, then they are not to be. Winters are 'way too warm. Even a cool one... most nights are above 40 deg F and days above 60. And sometimes there are episodes of summer-like temps. So this is a "How far can I push the envelope?" exercise. I'll know the answer next spring.

Ponerorchis are considered hardy from zones 6-9. The same principle that plants are more cold hardy when planted in the ground also applies to heat tolerance. I suspect that a 5 gal bucket buried deep enough so the top 2" are above the surrounding grade, with the only drainage at about the level of the surrounding grade and the substrate mounded up above the rim of the bucket would be a worthwhile experiment that could produce good results.

[Roberta]

Originally Posted by Subrosa

Ponerorchis are considered hardy from zones 6-9. The same principle that plants are more cold hardy when planted in the ground also applies to heat tolerance. I suspect that a 5 gal bucket buried deep enough so the top 2" are above the surrounding grade, with the only drainage at about the level of the surrounding grade and the substrate mounded up above the rim of the bucket would be a worthwhile experiment that could produce good results.

Might be worth a try, but I have my doubts... many years ago, I received some tulips and other bulbs, they were shipped in October. They went into the 'fridge. Then in around January I figured it would be safe to plant them. A few weeks later we had one of our hot spells... dry winds, temps close to 90 deg F. The tulips sprouted, raised their little heads into the sunshine and said "Wait a minute, days are warm and bright so it must be spring but days are short so it's still winter.) They bloomed, too early, and stunted. The next year, I think I got 2 daffodils, then nothing.

The other problem I'd have is that I'm not sure that I could make a hole deep enough for that bucket without a jackhammer, my "soil" is rock-hard clay. This is definitely an experiment... They may be "annuals".

[Subrosa]

Only 1 flower spike this year, but lots of new plants as opposed to last year.

[Roberta]

More than I got... just hoping for tubers.

[MateoinLosAngeles]

Our cold spell a couple of weeks ago sped up my Ponerorchis graminifolia dormancy... and Thelymitra awakening! Now, the Ponerorchis is in a community pot with two other plants and only one of the plants have entered dormancy. The other two are on its way, but their bottom green part still holds firmly to the tuberoids.

Should I wait until all are dormant to proceed with winter storage or am I risking putting the early bird at risk of rot?

[Roberta]

Originally Posted by MateoinLosAngeles

Our cold spell a couple of weeks ago sped up my Ponerorchis graminifolia dormancy... and Thelymitra awakening! Now, the Ponerorchis is in a community pot with two other plants and only one of the plants have entered dormancy. The other two are on its way, but their bottom green part still holds firmly to the tuberoids.

Should I wait until all are dormant to proceed with winter storage or am I risking putting the early bird at risk of rot?

I'm seeing pretty much the same except Thely not yet waking up. (Which one do you have? Some have shorter dormancy than others?) Amitostigma (Ponerorchis) keiskei has definitely gone dormant, and one of my 3 pots of Hab. radiata, the other two still have green, as does Ponerorchis graminifolia. Getting ratty but not dormant yet. I have moved the definitely dormant ones away from where they'd get hit by the sprinklers, will still water lightly for a bit while waiting for the others. I don't think it is necessary to fully dry any of these yet. It's still a lot warmer than what they'd experience in the moutains of Japan. It's also a lot wetter there. Even when dry in winter they need a bit of damp (like a bit of sphag) to not desiccate even when moved to the 'fridge. Again, "dry" in Japan is a lot wetter than "dry" in California.

I have 2 Thelys that I just acquired that showed some signs of sprouting that I have started to water, the rest of my Mediterranean-climate terrestrials will wait for another couple of weeks (uless it rains) before I start to water. THOSE do experience dry-dry in habitat in the summer. I want to make sure that nights stay cool before waking those up.

Pterostyls curta I have been watering since the beginning of August, and they're sprouting - they have a much shorter dormancy than the other Aussie terrestrial species.

[MateoinLosAngeles]

Originally Posted by Roberta

I'm seeing pretty much the same except Thely not yet waking up. (Which one do you have? Some have shorter dormancy than others?)

Thelymitra glaucophylla! My first one. I have the tuber stored in a deli cup but the growth is about a 1/4-1/2 inch tall so I think it's asking for a potting. We are gonna be getting temps in the 80s for the foreseeable future and no nights under 60. This is my first Thely so it's kind of a bet, growing indoors, plan to let it be a 100% windowsill plant with supplemental LED light. Would you recommend clay pots to cool it down? I'm concerned about it drying too quickly, can't really water more than once a week so I have my collection adjusted for that.

Others that I have waking up right now are Ophrys morisii, and Anacamptis coriophora. My Stenoglottis fimbriata is still awake and even though it's young, it seems like it has something resembling a spike growing? Or maybe a leaf initiation that was simply aborted. Not sure!

Dactylorhiza romana and Orchis anatolica are still fully dormant. I got a Caladenia hybrid this year, it's starting to show a green eye.

Sounds good about the Japanese terrestrials! It's still warm. My media is still somewhat moist, they have stayed soaking wet all summer. Their last heavy watering was about a week ago, now I'm just gonna let the pots dry and simply sprinkle a bit of water until they all drop the leaves. My Ponerorchis enomotoe is still awake, though, fully green.

[Roberta]

I have never tried growing the Med terrestrials indoors... Once a week watering may be an issue. I think just put them as close to the window as you can... they also need lots of light. I don't know how critical any particular temperature range is... I just don't want them waking up to 90 deg F. so I wait until late October (when, if it gets hot, it's for only a few hours and nights are cool, no more of the 70 deg F "monsoonal" nights) Water is the biggie... start lightly, but once they're leafing and spiking they're thirsty. Basically, I think of them as wildflowers more than "orchids". (The only thing that Mother Nature doesn't give them that they'd get in habitat is reliable rain... therefore "rain" comes from a hose when necessary)

The Med terrestrials certainly don't need "real cold" like the Japanese terrestrials do. How does a plant "know" it's fall when it is an underground tuber? Probably the overall drop in temperature especially at night, and the start of rain. Timing is pretty flexible - last year mine started a bit earlier since it rained in early October (unusual) This year seems more "normal" as far as rainfall pattern goes (I covered mine up when Hillary came through which was still summer). Now, not much rain in the forecast but temps are pretty normal. (I expect to see Cymbidium spikes soon, warm days and cool nights trigger those)