Zygopetalum Adelaide Meadows 'Brabum' x Ptpm. Matthina 'Elizabeth' questions

[cbuchman]

Don't given up yet. It might still surprise you. Mine often has almost mature pbulbs when the spikes appear.

[lotis146]

Originally Posted by cbuchman

Don't given up yet. It might still surprise you. Mine often has almost mature pbulbs when the spikes appear.

I shall never give up!! LOL.

Thank you that is nice to know, and much appreciated.

[lotis146]

The new growth I spoke of before has never produced a spike though I don't quite know that the pbulb is necessarily "fully mature". That said it did produce a new growth itself. After leaving it out during several cold nights (40s) I decided to bring it and all the others in because lows in the 40s was supposed to continue, including a few in the low 40s. Then several days after being inside I was inspecting it and the new growth, 4" or so, is growing a spike! I can't believe it. My question to the world is, is this due to the shock of the cold, bringing it inside to warmer more consistent temps (heat's on now) or both? It's been outside all summer during which we often had streaks of cooler evenings, say in the 50s.

In a couple of months be prepared I'll have pictures!

[lotis146]

I am so so happy to say that this has been in bloom for over a week now! The new growth I spoke of before, the one present when I got this from Seattle Orchids, never did spike. Instead it grew this new growth that produced a spike when it wasn't yet more than 5" tall.

Not quite two months later I've got six blooms. They're fragrant though not of the most pleasant kind. It's very...spicy, similar to the Neopabstopetalum (Zygoneria Adelaide Meadows x Zygopabstia 'Blue Bird') I shared a little while ago. And as you can see like I do that Adelaide Meadows has quite a strong influence in breeding. My understanding is that it's been used extensively. They look so so similar as are their fragrances.



The biggest differences between the two are that this one is A LOT bigger and its leaves are riddled with black marks. The flowers are also bigger, more spread out on the more arching spike; they have more brown markings on the petals and sepals and the lip is more of a lighter purple in color with less white.

I've not had it long enough to know if it will flower for me more than once a year, I'll have to update you on that next year. Oh and all but the last two buds opened in the same day, round about the same time really.This is unlike my Zygolum, Oncidiums, multifloral Paph, & Phals, which open one bloom at a time often several days apart. One last detail, while I don't have pics, the last two buds have since been open. The very end bud's lower sepals are slightly more horizontal and a bit "fatter".

Thanks for looking, enjoy!

[orchidsarefun]

interestingly Propetalum Mathina has the zygo shape but the bloom colouring is completely non-zygo looking. Its an interesting bloom. Parents are a zygo and Promenaea xanthina. ( all yellow bloom ).
Now when its crossed back with a zygo-looking hybrid, we get a ........zygo-looking bloom ! Zygo genes really predominate in certain crosses. Something I have borne in mind when I have done mine; either you want the zygo-look, or something completely different !

someone used Mathina in a cross and produced Propetalum Kiwi Leopard - an all yellow zygo-looking bloom. I think its spectacular and wouldn't mind getting my hands on one of those...

[lotis146]

Originally Posted by orchidsarefun

interestingly Propetalum Mathina has the zygo shape but the bloom colouring is completely non-zygo looking. Its an interesting bloom. Parents are a zygo and Promenaea xanthina. ( all yellow bloom ).
Now when its crossed back with a zygo-looking hybrid, we get a ........zygo-looking bloom ! Zygo genes really predominate in certain crosses. Something I have borne in mind when I have done mine; either you want the zygo-look, or something completely different !

someone used Mathina in a cross and produced Propetalum Kiwi Leopard - an all yellow zygo-looking bloom. I think its spectacular and wouldn't mind getting my hands on one of those...

I've been on the lookout for Propetalums from the minute I looked the genus up. Actually it was while looking this plant up that I discovered how cool they are. I've got a couple Promenaeas myself and as you probably already know they're minis so it's crazy to think of crossing them with so much bigger plants! I wish they were in bloom now!

It is interesting that this looks all Zygo but then when you see Propetalums they all seem to be yellows and reds. I'd like to see more of such plants. It would be nice I think if there was a place you could go, a database of sorts, that lists successful and unsuccessful crosses, not just those registered, with specific details like how many attempts to cross, did it fail at pollination, did a pod/capsule ever form, how long until it failed? Maybe that would save people time. Looking up Propetalums it seems those registered are with a small list of Promenaeas.

Do you do much breeding with other Zygopetalinae subtribe species or stick mainly to Zygos and their hybrids?

[orchidsarefun]

having such a reference database would be great, but just to give you an example of the issues - I have previously asked RHS to publish photos online of hybrids registered. I said I would even pay per view ! They said that wasn't on their radar as yet, and remember RHS receive a photo for every hybrid registration request. I suspect everything boils down to cost and time commitment. Even the ploidy database online hasn't been updated for years.
I don't do straight zygo crosses any more because of the black spotting issue I had. Now its intergenerics, primarily with zygonisia and warczewiczella. I have always wanted a prom xanthina but worried about the cultural requirements - seeing the progeny is making me really keen.

[lotis146]

Originally Posted by orchidsarefun

having such a reference database would be great, but just to give you an example of the issues - I have previously asked RHS to publish photos online of hybrids registered. I said I would even pay per view ! They said that wasn't on their radar as yet, and remember RHS receive a photo for every hybrid registration request. I suspect everything boils down to cost and time commitment. Even the ploidy database online hasn't been updated for years.
I don't do straight zygo crosses any more because of the black spotting issue I had. Now its intergenerics, primarily with zygonisia and warczewiczella. I have always wanted a prom xanthina but worried about the cultural requirements - seeing the progeny is making me really keen.

I actually just received my Prom xanthina hybrid today! (Not in bloom or bud though.) I just hope I get more plants blooming together. As appealing as the Propetalums are I've been surprised to see they're so difficult to find. I have recently found one from a Canadian grower however they require a minimum $500 for international orders. There are several plants I'd like from them but not $500 worth! Perhaps there are people around here - maybe you? - interested in placing a bulk order. They have a Propescapetalum as well as some Oncids I think are fantastic.

Your recommendation to RHS makes total sense to me. The number of plant names I've copied and pasted into google images searches is quite large. I can understand it would take a great deal of time to get all those pictures up but today's technology has made things A LOT easier. Hopefully they update their databases soon!

How long do you guesstimate till you get some flowers from your crosses?

Thanks!

[orchidsarefun]

how long to blooms.........well I think a couple of years. Unlike phals they seem to be slow-growing !!
I currently have a space issue and am being very careful with new purchases. Also - where possible - I want to be able to see and handle the plant before purchasing. I am going to Columbus this weekend and will see what the vendors are offering. Compact growers are preferable.

[lotis146]

Originally Posted by orchidsarefun

how long to blooms.........well I think a couple of years. Unlike phals they seem to be slow-growing !!
I currently have a space issue and am being very careful with new purchases. Also - where possible - I want to be able to see and handle the plant before purchasing. I am going to Columbus this weekend and will see what the vendors are offering. Compact growers are preferable.

Years...so sad...

I can already understand the space issue. Proms I've discovered are nice for that reason. (Picked up a compact Oncid - Helcia sanguinolenta (sp may be off) with the Prom, pretty happy bout it.) I hope/plan by the time I have any seedlings to care for from my crosses I'll have basement grow room set up, I guess that's one advantage to their looonnnnggg growth time.

Definitely respect the need to hold and handle even as I buy from eBay with great experiences/success. Good luck and good times in Columbus this weekend, hope you find some good things. Do share.