Newbie an explicit rubric for "Winter Rest" - Orchid Board

emosupremo · #1 01-15-2014, 06:36 AM

Joined because I am interested in getting more aggressive with my orchids regarding the issue of the "Winter Rest". Having tried this on a Den nobile and lost a beautiful plant I am leery of anyone who claims they give no water. I've started taking monthly pics of the pseudobulbs (to compare the hydrated vs shriveled state) but a few came to me crinkly so my uncertainty is squared. Am in the process of using the inet to ascertain the monthly rainfall and humidity values for the dendrobiums in my collection. Suppose there is no substitute for old fashioned reading but then again one of the 'masters' at the orchid club maintains that the info in a very reputable book is not always correct (my confusion is now cubed). What to do? What to do?

In the meantime I'll hang them in light in the greenhouse (58-ish to 75-ish deg F) with the misters on for two, four minute sprays a day (humidity always >60%) throughout the winter until Valentine's Day here in NY. The plants are as far away from the heat source and the misters as possible. Hope their fate is better than that poor nobile's.

Your experience is beyond value but here are some issues that could make your forum more helpful to us newbies. When you claim you "withhold water" your effort is (sort of) invalidated unless you state your HUMIDITY and MISTING. Variability in your windowsill to greenhouse to vivarium conditions and the disparate definitions i.e., a daily mist, weekly mist during your "withhold water" (or no mist at?) all paralyzes us newbies.

In retrospect comments like "growers don't give a winter rest" are not helpful either because maybe the grower wants a bigger, stronger plant to sell faster rather one that blooms (??just guessing here). Maybe the grower's and the hobbyist's goals are unconnected?

Did your leaves fall off, THEN you started the W/R or did Halloween come and you began to withhold water and feed?

Did you consciously break the rest on a certain day or did the daylight conditions cause a dormant plant to compel you to resume watering?

What would you do if a plant that is supposed to be resting sprouts a new growth? I want to tell it to go back to bed but am I supposed to skip the winter rest this season?

And what is a 'long rest'? Three weeks? Three months?

Anyway, enough of the constructive criticism. Thanks to those of you who took that extra effort to post the aforementioned details. It is very much appreciated by those of us who have not killed that species (yet). And of course thank you for letting me into the fold.

RosieC · #2 01-15-2014, 09:20 AM

Welcome to Orchid Board

I am still struggling to get to grips with winter rest as well. I used to grow orchids that didn't need it, now I have some that do and I'm still experimenting with what works and have always been confused by whether you are meant to water at all, or mist during the winter rest.

One think I learned only late last winter is that while people talk about resting being Halloween to Valentines, reducing/stopping fertiliser from the end of August can also be important. This is the first winter I've done that and I'm seeing results in some flower buds on dendrobiums I've not managed to bloom before.

I'm very occasionally giving rain water to my couple of nobile dens this year. I don't really know my humidity, but I'm basing it on when the medium starts looking really dry. It's not necessarily a case of keeping them bone dry, but the medium dries out far far far slower in winter and so if you water as much as in the summer you will rot them, watering when they tell you to (when the medium dries) and letting the medium go somewhat drier than in the summer seems to be working for me so far this year.

Some folks say that you don't actually need to stop watering, but it's the lack of fertiliser which is the most important. I don't have enough experience to know for sure, however I have lots of keikis of a hybrid of den unicum and for those I'm watering every 2-3 days with rain water and they have not had fertiliser since the end of August. They have stopped growing and the most mature of them are now producing flower buds (the first time for me managing to rebloom this hybrid)

However on the other hand, my Den kingianum keikis in the house have had the same treatment and they have just decided to set off growing again (no sign of flowers) while the keikis which were still on the parent and getting very very occasional water (more like once every 3-4 weeks) are all spiking (the ones spiking have also been kept cooler in the greenhouse so not sure exactly what has made the difference).

I think this is one of the problems, not all species/hybrid that need a winter rest need that rest to take exactly the same form. The advice I remember is to keep an eye on them and if you stop watering, then give a little water still if the canes are wrinkling too much... but how much is too much, very difficult for a newbie to winter resting to know

I share you pain in not finding it very clear on how to rest orchids. I tend to err on the side of watering too much and I haven't killed them by doing that so far... I just haven't had flowers from many of the deciduous ones. Careful experimentation with no fertiliser and less water has this year given results, but it's taken several years to find a balance that works for me and I'm still unsure with some of them.

emosupremo · #3 01-15-2014, 10:01 AM

Right. Next year no fertilizer after Labor Day. Thank you for taking (considerable!) time to write back about this mysterious term. You must have a burst of pride that your efforts were rewarded re: 'This is the first winter I've done that and I'm seeing results in some flower buds on dendrobiums I've not managed to bloom before.' as well you should...it takes courage to starve my babies of water.
The point about the fertilizer having to stop makes so much sense if we think about the orchid growing in the wild. If only i weren't so blind to see the obviousness of "not fertilizing something that has no access to the rainfall that delivers the fertilizer" I might have avoided a potential lack of blooms this year. Ah well.
You know. I'm getting to the point where I just might avoid the urge to get two new orchids and instead buy duplicates of one species and do the experiment. THAT's a post I hope to share.
I wish I knew what to do about this Den anosum (superbum) because one piece I put near the sprayer high up in the greenhouse and a second piece down low in the sun but cooler section...both have sprouted new growth. I can't treat it like my kid and tell it to go back to sleep (can I)? Water one and mist the other I guess. and report back with the results.
The ones with the leaves still on Ill just keep misting and cool till new growth appears.

Thanks again.

Orchid Whisperer · #4 01-15-2014, 10:43 AM

Hi and welcome, Emosupremo!

Rosie's advice, that different plants need different types of winter rest, is exactly right.

I have a Coelogyne cristata that is a relatively new plant for me, but I have read that it needs a significantly cooler & drier period in the winter to bloom well, enough to get the pseudobulbs to shrivel a bit, but still not completely dry. But, during the summer, it needs to be pretty moist/wet all the time.

I am still learning on the nobile Dendrobiums, but the type of winter rest that these need is much drier than my Coelogyne. The drier winter rest for the nobile Dendrobiums would be bad for/might kill my Coelogyne, and vice-versa. I don't grow Catsetums but I have read that most of these require a very dry rest until they start growing in the spring, water them too soon and you risk killing them (admittedly, one of the reasons I have avoided them so far). Even with Cattleyas, I try not to water much in the winter (though I do water some), and minimize fertilizer, unless it is clear that they are actively growing.

I have found that a good starting place for orchid species culture is Culture On Demand - Orchid Species Culture Sheets This is a pay service, but it is relatively inexpensive. They have some free sheets available at Orchid Species Culture - Free Sheet Index If you have a hybrid, you can extrapolate culture requirements from the species that make up the hybrid.

Are all of the winter-rest plants that you have Dendrobiums, or do you have others?

Welcome again, and good luck!

silken · #5 01-15-2014, 11:04 AM

Welcome to Orchid Board. RosieC said it well. I started with my Nobile hybrids by giving them no water or ferts from Halloween until valentine's Day. They grow in a cool greenhouse that is 55F at night and 65F in the day. I keep these near a patio door in winter so it is likely even cooler than what the thermostat says. I got blooms but not many. Then I was told what RosieC said. No feed from late summer (I cut off the fertilizer some time in Aug. now) and occasional water to keep the bulbs plump. I don't really keep track but do water them now about half as often as many orchids out there get. So far I have a few in bud but again, not masses of buds. I may have to re-pot mine or increase their feed in spring and summer to get better results. At least I am getting some blooms. Humidity out there hovers around 50% in winter.

The other thing is that many orchids perform fine under various conditions. So growers can give many different bits of advise and they will all work for them in their conditions. Some of us growers who grow for the fun of it don't have every detail available in a number. Such as exact humidity and how many foot candles are lighting each plant. And temps vary around a room. So a lot of it is trial and error for your set of conditions. I used to kill my orchids with root rot-especially in a cool greenhouse in winter. So I really tend to err on the side of under watering. This sometimes results in a slightly shrivelled pseudo bulb or more leathery leaf but at least the plant is still alive!

So welcome to the board and may all your orchids bloom!

silken · #6 01-15-2014, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emosupremo

I wish I knew what to do about this Den anosum (superbum) because one piece I put near the sprayer high up in the greenhouse and a second piece down low in the sun but cooler section...both have sprouted new growth. I can't treat it like my kid and tell it to go back to sleep (can I)? Water one and mist the other I guess. and report back with the results.
The ones with the leaves still on Ill just keep misting and cool till new growth appears.

Thanks again.

OrchidWiz says this about the Den. anosum: