Hybrid lineage traceable?

[smokinjoe52]

I am just starting to learn about genus/species/hybrids etc. I also ordered my first ID orchids. Is it generally possible to trace hybrids back to the original species? If so, is there a specific web resource?

These were just added to my small collection, and was wondering about their heritage.


1. Oncidium Sharry Baby "Red Fantasy' (Jamie Sutton x Honolulu) 4" pot,


2. Phalaenopsis Lianher Happy Dancer (Memoria Frances Hunte x Ming-Hsing Cinderella) - 6 inch Pot Size

3. Phal.(violacea var borneo x violacea var borneo 'Pacific Isle' (bellina)

Thanks,

Joe

[silken]

There are likely web sites as well, but I get all of this info from OrchidWiz. It is an orchid encyclopedia+ that you can buy and use on your computer. Attached are the family trees of the Onc. Sharry Baby and the Phal. The beautiful scent on Sharry Baby is from the grand parent Onc. sotoanum. There is a lot more lineage to the Phal, but it is almost endless, there are so many species bred into it.





The Phal. violacea is a species and two of the variety borneo have been crossed. One was given a cultivar name of 'Pacific Isle' There is no other lineage as this is still the species Phal. violacea var. borneo.

[Orchid Whisperer]

Your best resource is the RHS Orchid Registry website:

Edit: I must have been typing this when Silken posted; I'll say that RHS is your best free resource; Orchidwiz is very good, but comes with a licensing fee.
The International Orchid Register / RHS Gardening

A grex is a cross (hybrid). So, you can search the grex Oncidium Sharry Baby by entering "Oncidium" in the genus search box and "Sharry Baby" in the grex search box. Searching on those terms will tell you the parents that make up that grex, and you can look up the lineage of the parents as well. All Oncidium orchids with the name Sharry Baby will have the same hybrids (or species) as parents.

[smokinjoe52]

Thanks!

That is very helpful.

One thing about the Phal. violacea. If you cross a species plant with another species plant I THOUGHT you came up with a hybrid. This must be a case where a specific species is crossed with another identical species, but they had a few minor visual differences. Is that the deal here?

Again, thanks so much for the replies. GREAT resources.

Joe

[stonedragonfarms]

Originally Posted by smokinjoe52

Thanks!

That is very helpful.

One thing about the Phal. violacea. If you cross a species plant with another species plant I THOUGHT you came up with a hybrid. This must be a case where a specific species is crossed with another identical species, but they had a few minor visual differences. Is that the deal here?

Again, thanks so much for the replies. GREAT resources.

Joe

If you cross two plants of the same species, ie Phal. violacea x Phal. violacea, the resulting plant is still Phal. violacea; this will hold true even if you use one of the varieties of the species, should there be varieties (I don't grow any Phals, but I'm conjecturing there is at least either a coerulea or alba variety of violacea.) If you cross two different species, ie Phal. violacea x Phal. wilsonii, you will get a primary hybrid. Crossing a species with a hybrid will result in a complex hybrid; as there are more than two species in the genetic makeup.
If the label on your plant reads something like Phal. violacea sp. x (Jade Dragon x Chappy Chipmunk), then you are correct in your assumption; the long notation would read Phal. violacea 'Jade Dragon' x Phal. violacea 'Chappy Chipmunk'. It's still the species Phal. violacea, even though it is a hybrid of two named plants of the species. You will often encounter this when breeders use 2 select, line bred or awarded parents in the cross; the aim is usually to increase the already desirable qualities which the parents bring to the potential offspring (rounder flowers, better color, increased plant vigor, etc.)
Hope this helps,
Adam

[sweetjblue]

There's a new website that I have found very useful.

BlueNanta

Not sure if it has everything listed, but it's free and pretty easy to use.


.

[smokinjoe52]

Wow, Orchidwiz looks like a great application. The "tree" output is very nice. I looked at the Orchidwiz website, and found out why it is so good! Expensive, and not something I need right now.

So...

I used the RHS website and tried to duplicate the information presented by OWiz. I entered Onc. and Sharry baby, expecting to see the Jamie Sutton and Honolulu as the parents. I did not see either of those listed.

Why?

Also, My assumption is that all the parents listed are the parents for all the varietes of Sharry Baby.

Is that a correct assumption. If not what am I looking at?

Hang in there everybody. I'm real close.

[sweetjblue]

BlueNanta has the info.

BlueNanta

[stonedragonfarms]

Originally Posted by smokinjoe52

Wow, Orchidwiz looks like a great application. The "tree" output is very nice. I looked at the Orchidwiz website, and found out why it is so good! Expensive, and not something I need right now.



So...



I used the RHS website and tried to duplicate the information presented by OWiz. I entered Onc. and Sharry baby, expecting to see the Jamie Sutton and Honolulu as the parents. I did not see either of those listed.



Why?



Also, My assumption is that all the parents listed are the parents for all the varietes of Sharry Baby.



Is that a correct assumption. If not what am I looking at?



Hang in there everybody. I'm real close.

I'm assuming you used the parent search function instead of the grex name function. The above plants come up as the parents when Oncidium Sharry Baby is entered in the grex name field. If you'd used the parent search function, you're most likely getting a list of plants having any Oncidium as a pollen parent coupled with Sharry Baby as a seed parent (or the inverse).

[silken]

You can get a mini OrchidWiz for less $$. I have the full version and it is not cheap. But I use it almost daily. It has a journal which has lovely features and I keep entries to all my plants plus photos on it. Also all the awards and it is pretty comprehensive for all orchids and their lineage and often photos to see what they look like. Many other options too. But I have over 100 orchids so for me it is worth it.

As for Sharry Baby, it will always have the same parents. So that family tree I showed you will be the same for every Sharry Baby. If they are awarded or a breeder wants to set theirs apart as a known clone, they will add a cultivar name after it. This just means it is one particular plant, or clones of it. It is still Sharry Baby with the same parents and grandparents etc.

Your Phal has such a long family tree, I couldn't even include it all on one page. And it is too much to be concerned with unless you are a serious breeder of Phals or something.

These plants have been register with the Royal Hort society (RHS) and that is their official name than can not be used by anyone else to officially name their orchid of the same genus.