Phal. tetraspis 'C1' a clone?

[sweetjblue]

A seedling of a C#1 selfing would not be a clone of an C#1 and as thus could be named anything that you'd like.

A cultivar name can be given at any time, you do not need to wait for an award to do so. If it were, how would one tell one seedling from another when not in bloom? Other than designating them 1, 2 or 3?


Judi

[PaphMadMan]

'C#1' or 'C1' may have originally represented a clone, but there are certainly many plants out there being called C1 that are true non-cloned seedlings, and not all vendors are being careful or honest about what they mean by C1. Buyer beware.

In some other plants seed-grown cultivars are recognized, but in orchids a cultivar is always a clone, and any clone can be given a cultivar name. And to be clear, a clone is a genetically unique individual (originally a true seedling or a new mutation) and any/all genetically identical plants propagated from it by any means - divisions, cuttings, keikis, mericlones. The original unique plant was a clone even when it was just 1 plant, and all the propagated plants together are one clone no matter how many there are. Clone is always singular in that sense, and represents the genotype not a plant or plants.

[plantbuddy]

When a plant receives an AOS award, it is required by the AOS that a clone name be given, immediately. This is to differentiate it from all others of the same crosses/species that were not given the same merit.

Yes every genotype is unique. However, clone is initially a verb, as well as a noun, and it infers that multiplication has taken place.

A single orchid plant which one wishes to individualize would more properly be called a selection rather than a clone.

On a side note, a single wild blueberry plant can spread by rhizomes more than 20 yards in time, covering a large expanse, and it is called a clone. Only one plant, but vastly increased in size.

And yes Paphmadman. Varieties (cultivars, meaning cultivated varieties) in other plants (i.e. crops) can be an amalgamation of individuals as long as they are; distinct, stable, and uniform. But that's another story.

[PaphMadMan]

Originally Posted by plantbuddy

... However, clone is initially a verb, as well as a noun, and it infers that multiplication has taken place.

We essentially agree on everything but this. Clone was first used only as a noun, perhaps first in publication in 1903, adapted from a Greek work for twig. It was not commonly used as a verb until after another publication in 1959.

[naoki]

'C#1' is a clone name as others have suggested. Nobody knows for sure about the origin, but here is an interesting story:
Big Leaf Orchid forum • View topic - Phal. tetraspis & tetraspis var. speciosa

Some are genuine MC of the original clone, but I heard that some 'C#1' are not (as others have indicated).

Here is the report of switching (phenotypic plasticity) between bar type and blotch type (this was posted here last year):

http://www.richardiana.com/pdfRich/R...20speciosa.pdf

It's a bit hard to believe because no other people has seen this happening.

[plantbuddy]

Originally Posted by PaphMadMan

We essentially agree on everything but this. Clone was first used only as a noun, perhaps first in publication in 1903, adapted from a Greek work for twig. It was not commonly used as a verb until after another publication in 1959.

Well then, we can agree on everything.

I suppose I was caught up in the more recent use of the word, as in propagation, not the Greek sense.

I stand corrected.