NOID Oncidium - Orchid Board

TedM · #1 09-27-2012, 04:24 PM

I've had this plant for several years now, got it from the collection of a deceased neighbor. It never had a plant tag. This is its first bloom, and it was unusual enough I thought getting a potential ID was appropriate. The individual flower is almost exactly 2" (5cm) across from tip to tip. Oncidium growth habit, so pretty sure about that (related genera?) The colors in the photo are not too good - the petals are more chocolatey and the red on the lip is very deep - not quite maroon but almost. The white on the bottom of the lip is absolutely pure white - no shading or splashes - and the line between the red and white is very distinct, with no transition. Any ideas?
A little more info - the fellow I got this from was into species, so there's very little chance it is a cross. Also, the plant is old - at least 25 to 30 years old, probably even more.
I've added a new photo - please help!

WhiteRabbit · #2 09-28-2012, 12:11 AM

Beautiful! Looks familiar to me, but no name is coming to mind. Maybe someone else may have an idea. Good luck!

TedM · #3 10-22-2012, 11:21 AM

Just in case anyone is still interested, I found out what it is:

Odontonia Samurai

NYCorchidman · #4 10-22-2012, 11:53 AM

Yep, that's what it is.
I know the flowers look amazing in person with the vivid wine red in the center.

By the way, it's hard to believe the plant is that old and it's the frist time flowering??

Have you been growing this in shade? This plant is supposed to have TONS of flowers when in bloom.

TedM · #5 10-22-2012, 01:46 PM

@NYCorchidman:

Well, here's the story ...

I've been growing orchids for over 40 years. Had a nice little greenhouse, fully automated, etc. Hundreds of plants.

A few years back, about the same time I acquired the Odontonia Samurai, my next-door neighbor added a second story to his house. Beautiful addition, only one problem - it shaded my greenhouse!

I started losing plants left and right, and eventually lost all interest. Tore down the greenhouse and just let nature take its course. Totally ignored the orchids.

Now I've gotten the bug again, so I am finally giving proper care to the orchids that are left. Whatever survived my neglect is the basis of my new collection. A surprising number made it, but only because of our mild Zone 10B climate.

Now I grow ALL my orchids outside! No more greenhouse - only plants that are "temperature tolerant." So, yes, this is the first time the Odontonia Samurai has bloomed - first time it has had the opportunity.

I'm having more fun now than I did then.

And concerning my neighbor, he's one of the nicest guys you'd ever want to meet. The second story was a bit of a blow, but he makes up for it in so many other ways, I really don't hold it against him.

NYCorchidman · #6 10-22-2012, 02:05 PM

Ok, it suffered in the past and coming back slowly. Then it makes sense.
Oncidiums in general including your samurai makes tons of flowers, but in order to do so, they require high light.

This plant and many other orchids should be fine growing outside all year around in Southern Cali except for some really cold nights, then many Californian folks bring some indoor to protect them.

TerriF · #7 10-24-2012, 12:08 PM

I bought this same variety 2 or 3 years ago -- no tag. It was in bloom at the time, but I hadn't developed a compulsion yet to label my plants. Anyway, it was too pretty to pass up and I figured I'd find out sooner or later what it was. I belong to the local Orchid Society (Umpqua valley, Oregon) and they opined that it is an oncidium.
Last month I found it burgeoning with four spikes, a real thrill. It has since started opening (from the bottom up) and I brought it indoors to be able to photograph it, admire it, and hunt down it's identity.

I recently signed up (joined) Orchid Board in order to search out a name for it. AND THERE IT WAS - Odontonia Samurai! Anybody know the parents?

Thanks again. -TerriF

TedM · #8 10-24-2012, 08:46 PM

Unfortunately, we may never know the parental cross.

I asked the Executive Secretary of the International Commercial Orchid Growers Organization (he's also the guy who correctly identified it as Odontonia Samurai) and here's his reply:

"Sorry, I do not have it either. To avoid someone else stealing a hybrid or clone, it has been more and more common to see breeders giving a name to his/her orchids for commercial use and not registering the hybrids with RHS any longer. Sometimes, the person offering a clone does not even know what he has."

Not good for us hobbyists, but I guess industrial secrecy trumps that!

If anyone else has any idea of the specific cross (more than just a cross between Odontoglossum and Miltonia), please chime in.

lepetitmartien · #9 10-25-2012, 12:43 AM

I may add that beyond the RHS registry, there's a © system protecting crops (orchids©) 17 years in the USA, but preventing any use of the genetics or crosses, and the Europe native, now in 70 countries UPOV registering system (orchid®), that gives 20 or 30 years of protection, with access to genetics so you can cross them.

In the end it's all a mess…

orchidsarefun · #10 10-25-2012, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TedM

Unfortunately, we may never know the parental cross.

I asked the Executive Secretary of the International Commercial Orchid Growers Organization (he's also the guy who correctly identified it as Odontonia Samurai) and here's his reply:

"Sorry, I do not have it either. To avoid someone else stealing a hybrid or clone, it has been more and more common to see breeders giving a name to his/her orchids for commercial use and not registering the hybrids with RHS any longer. Sometimes, the person offering a clone does not even know what he has."

Not good for us hobbyists, but I guess industrial secrecy trumps that!

If anyone else has any idea of the specific cross (more than just a cross between Odontoglossum and Miltonia), please chime in.

immediate parents are Aliceara Hani x Onc Shroederianum
According to OrchidWiz this was registered in 2006.