Please help identify this awesome vanda

[Roy]

[QUOTE=cneos;239659]I agree - this could be V. Pakchong Blue (Doctor Anek x coerulea). To me, the leaf span suggests an ascocenda - maybe a clone of Ascda. Princess Mikasa (Ascda. Royal Blue x V. coerulea)?

To be honest, I have a V. Pakchong Blue that has flowered 3 or 4 times before I bought it and its about half the size of my Ascda's. In fact its generally a smaller plant than most Ascda but the flower size is huge in comparison.

[cneos]

We seem to share a fascination/preference for the vandae ... what else do you have in your collection? What are your growing conditions?

You might gather from my posts that I am a stickler for having proper (valid) names for my plants. As to the subject plant, unless the grower can confirm the parents or the registered name, his gorgeous plant remains as Vanda (or Ascda.) NOID.

Still, the research and dialogue is educational for all.

[Roy]

My main collection is Paphs but I also love the Vanda, Ascda, Vasco, Christieara, Rhynchostylis, Aerides, Renanthera, Angraecum etc. and a few Indian & PNG Dens. My conditions aren't perfect by any means but I do have success. Temp's range from 10c to 35c+ till I get the A/C working.
I also hate NOID orchids and work hard to find the name. I must say here that at times I am not sure if I'm correct when I focus on a name but I'm even more sure that it would be darn hard to find an alternative. The problem I have found over the years is never accepting a name or over questioning a name or asking questions that cannot be answered otherwise the problem wouldn't have existed in the first place. There are too many orchids available these days (particularly in the Vanda/Ascda line) that seem to have name or clonal name changes between countries to be totally researched. The best guess is perfect particularly if the plant is to be exhibited. From personal experience, there are very few Judges with a broad enough knowledge to argue over the name of a hybrid orchid provided it resembles what it should look like. ( I am a qualified Judge but also the exception to the rule, I love to argue.) I put the point that if you put up 20 white Phalaenopsis of the one cross, all with different names or the same in alba Maudiae Paphs, who can tell the names aren't correct???

[AuGrower]

well y'all are going to hate this but the label was written in pencil, here is the picture and i'm glad that someone understands my frustration about not knowing the name, im not someone who has to have everything perfect but it bothers me when i cannot proudly say i know almost everything about my orchids. also i think the growing conditions may help shed some light on all this i deleted the email how ever but i remember full sun with like 90% humidity.

http://www.orchidboard.com/community...ium/photo2.jpg

[cneos]

Per the label, it definitely appears that the grex name is Woleco and Neo's Choice is likely the clonal name. The only (registered) hybrid with the grex name Woleco is Aranda Woleco. Aranda is comprised of Arachnis (known for its spidery-shaped, open flowers) and Vanda.

Aranda Woleco is a cross of Aranda Christine and Vanda Doctor Anek. Aranda Christine very much resembles its Arachnis hookeriana parent, while Vanda Doctor Anek has the full, round form that you might expect with Vanda hybrids.

I see no evidence of Arachnis in your plant, so I doubt that it is Aranda Woleco. The shape and color of the flower, length of inflorescence, and the fairly large sized bloom on a small plant still leads me to believe that you have a hybrid (or mericlone) that bears several 'doses' of Vanda coerulea in its background.

I may be totally off here, but I think tags got mixed up somewhere. If you don't intend to have the considered for AOS judging, simply call it Vanda Noname 'Awesome' and enjoy it anyway.

[Bird Song Farm]

Hi,
I just wanted to drop in here and thank you all for a most interesting thread. I know everyone tracking it has learned a lot and been entertained too!
The Orchid Board, it's the place to learn.

Al

[cneos]

Originally Posted by Roy

My main collection is Paphs but I also love the Vanda, Ascda, Vasco, Christieara, Rhynchostylis, Aerides, Renanthera, Angraecum etc. and a few Indian & PNG Dens. My conditions aren't perfect by any means but I do have success. Temp's range from 10c to 35c+ till I get the A/C working.
I also hate NOID orchids and work hard to find the name. I must say here that at times I am not sure if I'm correct when I focus on a name but I'm even more sure that it would be darn hard to find an alternative. The problem I have found over the years is never accepting a name or over questioning a name or asking questions that cannot be answered otherwise the problem wouldn't have existed in the first place. There are too many orchids available these days (particularly in the Vanda/Ascda line) that seem to have name or clonal name changes between countries to be totally researched. The best guess is perfect particularly if the plant is to be exhibited. From personal experience, there are very few Judges with a broad enough knowledge to argue over the name of a hybrid orchid provided it resembles what it should look like. ( I am a qualified Judge but also the exception to the rule, I love to argue.) I put the point that if you put up 20 white Phalaenopsis of the one cross, all with different names or the same in alba Maudiae Paphs, who can tell the names aren't correct???

No matter how many seedlings result from crossing of Vanda coerulea and Vanda sanderiana, the seedlings will ALL bear the same grex name - Vanda Rothschildiana. There may be differences from plant to plant and a grower may give each plant a clonal name to distinguish it from the next. OR, the plant may earn a clonal name upon earning an AOS (or other authority's) award.

When a plant is entered for AOS judging, its legitimate name should be listed on the entry form and the judges SHOULD accept that the grower has properly identified his plant. You are right - "there are very few Judges with a broad enough knowledge to argue over the name of a hybrid orchid provided it resembles what it should look like." If the judge thinks it's something else, his score will reflect it.

There is lots of confusion about some plants' proper names, but I don't think it's limited to the Vandae. In many instances, plants that are mass-produced for the cut-flower trade, either from seed or by mericloning, often lose their Grex name altogether and are sold by their clonal name. For example, a few years ago, Mokara Calipso came to our judging center; neither the AOS nor RHS records listed the grex but the judges felt the plant worthy of scoring and it got a 75 point (provisional) HCC. The exhibitor did some extensive research (going to the seller and the nursery in Thailand) and found that the plant was actually Mokara Walter Oumae 'Calipso'. (The seller had written the clonal name only to save space on the label.) Upon presentation of this information, the judges validated the award.

Roy, I am enjoying this debate. I hope we've inspired you all to check out the RHS website for more on registration of orchid hybrids.

[AuGrower]

Yea seriously thank yall for all the help if you come across this beautiful vanda with the proper name please let me know but until then it's going to be the "Auburn Vanda" since it's like our school colors I did learn a lot

[Roy]

ceons, the point I was making is that, example, 10 green Maudiaes in flower with no labels, who is going to tell whether or not they are the same plant or different ?? Each one may be of the same cross or 10 different crosses, I could the one name on each plant of the 10 diff' crosses and no-one will question it. Depending on the orchid, as per original post and other orchids, the name can in some cases be readily found because its a mass produced mericlone. If a grower wholesales seedlings in flower, that becomes a whole new problem and where the best guess comes in. Labels are put in plants because the customer wants one. The biggest problem that I see happening in the USA, here to a certain extent, mainly with Phalaenopsis and in other countries is that people are buying orchids from NON orchid growing sources. All they do is buy-in from a wholesaler as stock. They don't care if the name is right, orchid growers are not the market they're after. NOID orchids will always be always be posted for ID and using the "best guess" theory sometimes can solve the problem but one has to accept that it can't happen. Provided the "best guess" is accurate in probability, there would be very few, if any, growers who would/could argue unless they happen to have a plant of the same with a true label. This becomes questionable also with the similarity of many hybrids, particularly in the Vanda/Ascda line. One eventually will have to accept the "best guess" or a genuine NOID or spend fruitless hours of searching for the impossible.

[cneos]

Well put. The judging system requires an identification, but an orchid doesn't have to be registered to be beautiful and appreciated.