Mystery Clowesetum??

[Roberta]

I would love to have a better idea of what this plant actually is. I got it from a society raffle table in 2007, labeled "Catasetum saccatum" ... It finally bloomed in 2018 (OK, I tend to keep anything that is alive as long as it doesn't take up too much room) and it very clearly wasn't even close to that. This year I got a very nice blooming of it, so was able to get more decent photos. (Some flowers got nibbled, I think by a slug that I found and dispatched) Clearly, it's not a Catasetum. It looks somewhat like Clowesia dodsoniana (which blooms around this time of year), but doesn't have the pronounced stripes, lip is narrower and more fimbriated compared to the photos I have looked at. I am suspecting that it might be Clowesia dodsoniana x Catasetum fimbriatum (= Clowesetum Barbara Leavitt)

So... looking for opinions ...

[DirtyCoconuts]

well you are 100 about what it aint…

have you sent this pic to Fred?

[Roberta]

Originally Posted by DirtyCoconuts

well you are 100 about what it aint…

have you sent this pic to Fred?

Haven't asked Fred yet. I am certain it's not one of his. Source of that raffle table had some other Catasetinae that were mislabled over the years ... can't ask them, the principals are either dead or in assisted living and out of the picture. (Would be curious as to where it came from but that question will remain unanswered)

[Jeff214]

Could it be a hybrid between

Clowesia russelliana,
Clowesia thylaciochila,
Clowesia dodsoniana,

x

Clowesia warczewitzii ?

Just a guess. Nice blooms!

[Roberta]

Interesting options... I don't see that much lip fimbriation in any of those species , and the lip is so much less broad (and more folded) than in the photos that I found. (Cl warczewiczii is the closest) I'm not familiar enough with any of the species to know how much might be natural variation (especially the lack of striping) and how much might be due to something else in there.

[Jeff214]

Right, I thought the coloration and marking looked like the first three and the shape more like Clowesia warczewitzii/rosea, especially with the fimbriations.

I got Clowesia thylaciochila and a Clowesia dodsoniana x Grace Dunn from SVO this year. It was on my mind since I was googling it a month or two ago.

[Roberta]

This one may end up with a question to Fred Clarke... the plant is not from SVO, but he is so knowledgeable that even if he can't make a positive ID, he'll probably have some ideas of its parentage.

[DirtyCoconuts]

that's what i was thinking...he basically paints with the genetics of these Genus and so he will know the shape AND the variations immediately

[Roberta]

I got response from Fred... no, not obvious at all. I did get the Clowesia part right...he thinks that could likely be Cl. russelliana as another option. The rest... could be Ctsm.saccatum (just because it's on the tag) or Ctsm. pileatum, no certainty at all, these could give the lip that it has. So, Clowestum WK ... genus is a reasonable guess, the rest, Who Knows?