Can you confirm if anceps or gouldiana

[Fairorchids]

Originally Posted by SouthPark

I just wonder whether this person here photographed an actual gouldiana, or whether he/she photographed an anceps.

Click Here.

100% definitely an anceps.

[SouthPark]

Thanks for confirming anceps Kim!

This one here is actually anceps too ----- Click Here.

It's like a case of sources putting up the wrong information ----- people grabbing the wiki photo.

[Roberta]

Originally Posted by SouthPark

Thanks for confirming anceps Kim!

This one here is actually anceps too I reckon ----- Click Here.

It's like a case of sources putting up the wrong information I think.

Looks like the same photo as the one in Wikipedia. Probably the same source. Equally wrong in both places. Just because it's on the Web doesn't make it correct... as with anything else, vet your sources. Once you know a good source (like IOSPE), why waste time and bandwidth looking for instances of bad ones?



In fact, a better use of the time would be to inform the sites of the error. Not familiar with the second site, but I know Wikipedia is very interested in receiving corrections and better info.

[SouthPark]

True Roberta. What we're doing right now is ------ establishing some information - indicating that some or various websites that other users might expect to contain believable information ----- actually contains quite erroneous information ---- about L. gouldiana that is.

I think a proper rundown with photos and pointing out distinguishing features and colours etc is probably needed.

[SouthPark]

Just added a possible distinguishing feature - circled in red.

[SouthPark]

Hi Roberta! ...... does your flower have three separate/individual raised 'ridges'? That is, three separate slats?

Or does it have just three stripes, all lying on a 'raised-plane' (assuming flat raised surface)?

The article here has the words 'raised-plain/plane'.

Just double-checking, as I can't tell for sure if your pic has an elevated plateau or has three ridges (slats) ...... Click Here.

Anyway - the article's words "the three calli are actually a flat 3 striped raised plain" is unclear ----- I think drawings would be useful to show what this description actually means.

[Roberta]

Those are "ridges" - "keels" is the botanical term. Those are sort of guides for the insect pollinator.

[SouthPark]

Originally Posted by Roberta

Those are "ridges" - "keels" is the botanical term. Those are sort of guides for the insect pollinator.

Thanks Roberta!

Does/did your flower of gouldiana have the keels? Just asking - because just trying to understand the article in IOSPE about gouldiana. They seem to be indicating that gouldiana has three 'lines' that run across a raised 'plain/plane', where I assume 'raised plain' means a raised surface (plateau region).

But - on the other hand, their sentence also begins with 'the THREE calli'.

That is, they say "the three calli are actually a flat 3 striped raised plain" ------ so --- if I ignore the word 'three' (in 'three calli'), then I assume that gouldiana has a raised surface (a table top) that has three lines that run along that raised surface.

[Roberta]

They are even more prominent in the L. gouldiana than the L. anceps. Take a look at the pix on my website. The L. gouldiana jumps out at you, and the lip/throat detail is pretty good on at least some of the many L. anceps photos.(L. anceps is the member of this group with lots of color-form variety) Take a look at my L. autumnalis as well, the differences really do jump out.

[SouthPark]

Roberta ----- very nice shots of the autumnalis, which does show the features nicely there.

Based on what I am seeing and gathering from all the existing information, my take on the distinctive features between anceps, gouldiana, and autumnalis is :

anceps has the table-top mountain, and no lines.

gouldiana has 'keels' or ridges, but appear to be relatively thick keels - generally with a red/brown line highlighting the top edges of each of the three 'keels'. The 3 keels of gouldiana are all brought close together toward the front of the lip, basically a v-shaped arrangement of the three keels when looking directly from above the keels. The three keels have similar height.

autumnalis has relatively thin keels (when compared with gouldiana), and the arrangement of autumnalis keels are less V-shaped when looking from the top. Also, the outermost keels are relatively tall compared with the middle keel. And autumnalis keels look more fin-like than gouldiana keels.



One extra note to add is - according to the IOSPE article about goudiana ------ they refer to a 'raised plain/plane' ----- which currently is a source of confusion. The words 'three calli' are a source of confusion too in their description of gouldiana.