Anyone know where to get this phal?

[NYCorchidman]

Originally Posted by Call_Me_Bob

I'm trying to stay out of this, but really? Calling people ignorant? I resent that, I know perfectly well what I am talking about!

I would just like echo myself (because it was obviously ignored earlier) IF YOU HAVE SANITARY PRACTICES VIRUSES ARE NOT A PROBLEM!!!!! Maybe you should learn how to have sanitary practices!

Sanitary practice, that's exactly the message to those business owners.

By the way, sanitary practice helps greatly I agree with you and I'm sure it will, but can't say viruses won't be a problem. When handling so many plants, even the greatest efforts will still fail to produce virus free stocks, but stocks with very low incidence of virus.

I know it's a reality, but I think the main point of the discussion and the frustration on this thread came because of the way some vendors like Norman's orchids dealt with their customers through the whole process.

I believe (and hope) Norman's orchids try all they can to provide clean and healthy plants to customers, but virused plants will pop up every once in a while.
They just have to deal with their customers better.

[FairyInTheFlowers]

Normally I try to restrain myself in arguements, and sometimes I cool off a bit, but since you have first fired with a direct insult, I think I am entitled to fire back. I have met ignorant people here on this board, but I think you take the cake.

I didn't really care to get into the specifics of all the classifications and characteristics of existing viruses! If it was neccessary, I can guarantee you I would have read up on whatever I needed to understand to ensure I didn't sound like I was talking just for attention. Seriously, I present a correct point and you decide to get hung up on something I said, which happened to be something that wasn't even incorrect? Pathetic. Regardless of what type it is, there will ALWAYS be viruses out there.

The analogy about killing people was meant to be ridiculous. You are wanting to get rid of viruses that exist within the orchid world. This is just as unreasonable as wanting to get rid of all the viruses that affect humans. It won't happen, no matter how much you whine about it, nothing can change. As your ignorance seemed to make you miss this, the main reason I am saying this is impossible is because viruses will never be eliminated. Think about this: every year a new strain of the common flu makes its way throughout North America, sometimes killing many people! The reason? Each year the type of virus changes in such a way that whatever antiviruses we have are useless. The same thing would happen with orchids.

I am getting pretty frustrated with what ignorance can do to a person. I am starting to realize that regardless of how many times people say that viruses will always be there, and we have no choice but to co-exist, you will refuse to realize you are wrong.

And really, amidst a semi-civil discussion you choose to act childish by vaguely insinuating some major error you believe exists in what I wrote? And then you go and directly insulting me by claiming I don't know what I'm talking about? Like I said, I refuse to speak out of ignorance like most people choose to. I wouldn't want to turn out to be something like you.

And the funny thing is that whatever you reply with will be predictable. I find it amusing that whenever there seems to be a debate here that I and others with clear reason enter, most of the people simply choose to ignore the clearly presented and undeniable facts.

[Call_Me_Bob]

Originally Posted by NYCorchidman

Sanitary practice, that's exactly the message to those business owners.

By the way, sanitary practice helps greatly I agree with you and I'm sure it will, but can't say viruses won't be a problem. When handling so many plants, even the greatest efforts will still fail to produce virus free stocks, but stocks with very low incidence of virus.

I know it's a reality, but I think the main point of the discussion and the frustration on this thread came because of the way some vendors like Norman's orchids dealt with their customers through the whole process.

I believe (and hope) Norman's orchids try all they can to provide clean and healthy plants to customers, but virused plants will pop up every once in a while.
They just have to deal with their customers better.

I honestly believe that Norman's knows what they are doing, and that they do have sanitary practices. I can't say I've been there to see, but a reputable dealer like them (I find them reputable, unlike the OP) I can't see how they wouldn't have sanitary practices. Getting three orchids in an order with viruses was probably a coincidence, when a seller is that large with that many plants, it's bound to happen.

I think that with newer hybrids (not talking about the classic catts) if they are virused it most likely originates in asia when they are mass produced.

You really CANNOT discount a seller and hold them accountable for following their own publicly declared policies! As I have stated above. I'm getting tired of repeating myself.

On that note, I'm excusing myself from this thread. I've said all I have to say, whether or not you choose to listen to the clearly presented facts is your choice! Choose wisely.

[NYCorchidman]

One thing, of many, I don't think anyone said anything about getting rid of viruses from the face of the earth. Hello~

The point was for us to be able to buy virus free plants and to have right to refuse to own one that's found to be virused, not to come up with a solution to wipe out all the viruses.

and I believe you are the one who began to use offensive tone and expressions.

Again, read what you just wrote. Keep firing, little child! Bye~

[FairyInTheFlowers]

Originally Posted by NYCorchidman

One thing, of many, I don't think anyone said anything about getting rid of viruses from the face of the earth. Hello~

The point was for us to be able to buy virus free plants and to have right to refuse to own one that's found to be virused, not to come up with a solution to wipe out all the viruses.

and I believe you are the one who began to use offensive tone and expressions.

Again, read what you just wrote. Keep firing, little child! Bye~

Maybe no one did mention wiping out viruses, but I brough it to such extreme measures to point out the fact that there will never be such a world with virus free plants.

The whole reason I am getting annoyed at all of this is because, like I said, there will never be such a thing as being totally confident that you aren't getting a virused plant! Even with the most strictest of sanitary practices, a thrip or mite carrying a virus could find its way into a collection and wreak havoc all over again. And for the rights to own a non-virused plant, if the vendor says no refunds without a return of the plant, they have every right to refuse to do anything until the plant is returned. Just like was said, that policy makes perfect sense, as they can't be sure if a person is lying and claiming things about their plants that can't be proven.

I really didn't want to get into a fight about who started it, but since I'm the little child, what the heck. Obviously what you believed in this instance is incorrect, as I entered this thread late with a little chuckle at your use of the term, 'abused minority', and gave a quick little comment that any adult like you should have ignored. However, you proved that you, in fact, are the child by calling me ignorant. If I was so ignorant, why didn't you take the time to explain what was wrong with what I said, instead of later hiding behind vague statements and claiming that something I said was ignorant. If you actually repeat for me to read my post and find my own ignorance, I will not be able to help myself from believing that you have no clue what you are talking about.

[NYCorchidman]

"...there will never be such a thing as being totally confident that you aren't getting a virused plant! Even with the most strictest of sanitary practices, a thrip or mite carrying a virus could find its way into a collection and wreak havoc all over again..."
I agree and I mentioned something similar already in my response to Call Me Bob above.

and this keeps going on and on. I'm out of this thread. enough said I think.

[FairyInTheFlowers]

Originally Posted by NYCorchidman

and this keeps going on and on. I'm out of this thread. enough said I think.

If you truly wanted nothing to do with this, you wouldn't have made this reply, and likely would have left the thread the moment I first commented, or when I first showed signs of not believing your side.

[orchidsarefun]

I am not sure why this degenerated into a slanging match, but even the AOS recommend disposing of virused orchids and purchasing only from certified producers. So go and criticise the AOS if you don't think that its good general advice. If someone wants to do so who am I, or you, to tell them not to ?
Orchid Viruses
I have yet to find a "certified" producer ( please help ) and I think that Hausermann's only raised their concern because Escualida must have mentioned the subject. After all I purchased mine from Hausermann's and they did not pre-caution me at all ! And I can vouch that they mostly onsell product from other vendors - that is product that they haven't grown themselves.

In fact if plants can be sold as 4N ( and the buyer won't be able to tell that without testing ), then I think that it is a reasonable expectation of a buyer to get virus-free, insect-free and disease-free plants. The stinger though, unfortunately, is that the buyer has to ASK them first ( about virus-free ). That I don't agree with.
A tip - with any purchase I always take photos of the plants I receive, together with packaging - and in the few instances of problems I have just sent the photos, and then got replacement plants, hassle free. I also don't believe in having to return actual plants, despite what any vendor policy says...

[WhiteRabbit]

No personal attacks/insults!

Seems all too often recently that threads are devolving to insults. I don't want to start giving infractions, but if this continues, I will feel I have no choice.

I am locking this thread - thread has been hijacked anyway. If you can all behave like adults while discussing viruses, you can carry on in a new or appropriate existing thread, in appropriate forum.

Please behave like the reasonable people I know you are!