Anyone know where to get this phal?

[escualida]

Originally Posted by bballr4567

What surprising? They cant guarantee it if it didnt come from them. Thats not that hard to believe.

I think it's surprising because even if they didn't grow it themselves, they ARE selling it and should want to not sell virused plants. I understand that some might get through but if they do, and the plant is found to have a virus, they should be willing to give a refund or replacement. Just because Wal-Mart doesn't make toasters, doesn't mean that you shouldn't be able to return a damaged toaster bought from them. A virused plant is basically a damaged product.

[bballr4567]

Originally Posted by escualida

I think it's surprising because even if they didn't grow it themselves, they ARE selling it and should want to not sell virused plants. I understand that some might get through but if they do, and the plant is found to have a virus, they should be willing to give a refund or replacement. Just because Wal-Mart doesn't make toasters, doesn't mean that you shouldn't be able to return a damaged toaster bought from them. A virused plant is basically a damaged product.

And once again, vendors cant test every single orchid that comes through their doors as it would put them out of business for sure. You have to see it from their side too. They have no idea if you are doing the testing correct or just might be saying its diseased to get rid of it because you didnt like it. Lots of variables involved.

I understand your frustration but like I said in the other thread, the only way to know for sure is to get a seedling and you might pay more to get it from a vendor that will guarantee it.

[escualida]

Originally Posted by bballr4567

And once again, vendors cant test every single orchid that comes through their doors as it would put them out of business for sure. You have to see it from their side too. They have no idea if you are doing the testing correct or just might be saying its diseased to get rid of it because you didnt like it. Lots of variables involved.

I understand your frustration but like I said in the other thread, the only way to know for sure is to get a seedling and you might pay more to get it from a vendor that will guarantee it.

And once again, like I said I understand that some might slip through and that the cost of testing every single plant might be high. But when one DOES slip through it is up to the SELLER to stand by their product and replace it or give a refund. There is no reason for the buyer to have to be the one to swallow the cost.

Saying that you think the buyer would buy a plant and then say it is diseased because they changed their minds is ABSURD. And even if this WERE to happen, it is pretty simple to verify. The seller can ask said buyer to send a sample to a reputable lab like Critter Creek, and if it comes up positive they can then add the cost of the test to the refund that they will give. It's that simple.

I don't feel sorry for sellers, they need to take all of this into account when starting their business, they can't just decide that it's ok to sell diseased plants and then take no responsibility when they are caught.

I do want to give a little update on Hausermann's in particular. Someone from there actually called me and we spoke for a while, in the end they told me that I could purchase whatever plants from them and if I send a sample to Critter Creek and it comes up positive they would indeed take responsibility. I agreed and I will probably still buy plants from them for this reason.

There are other sellers, however that are knowingly selling diseased plants and then either asking for them back so they can resell them, or simply not taking responsibility. One of those is orchids.com and there are others. THIS IS WRONG.

[bballr4567]

Im not saying its right but Im saying I understand it.

Stick with vendors you know are selling and backing good plants. Check their policies and know them. Good for hausermanns. Also, it might sound absurd for someone to lie about a test result to return a plant but Im sure stuff like that has happened. Work in retail for a bit you will see it all. When I worked at Lowe's people would purchase tools, use them and then return then after they finished their job saying they bought the wrong thing, it didnt work and so on. It happens.


Going back to your toaster analogy. If you buy two that are the exact same but with different brands on them and one has a 2 month warranty and the other has a 12. You buy the 2 month one and it craps out at 3 then what would you do? You cant return it because you knowingling bought it. Its the same when you purchase from an orchid vendor. Complaining about their policies that you agreed to when you purchased doesnt do a whole lot of good. Study up on the good ones and read the fine print. If you feel that strongly about it have you contacted the Dept. of Agriculture about orchids.com? Im sure they would like to know about their policies.

[Ordphien]

Lol... I have a feeling that if you meet the owners of Normans orchids you would understand the distinct lack of customer service...
I still order from them virus or not... as long as my plant doesn't show any signs I really don't care...
Probably more detrimental with a large prized, and expensive collection.
And I still order from them despite bad customer service and purposely garbled return policies and shipping schedules because it exactly what I expected out of them.
That's the kind of people they are. Quite frankly I have the feeling they were raised around and by people who do the same thing.

[escualida]

Originally Posted by bballr4567

Im not saying its right but Im saying I understand it.

Stick with vendors you know are selling and backing good plants. Check their policies and know them. Good for hausermanns. Also, it might sound absurd for someone to lie about a test result to return a plant but Im sure stuff like that has happened. Work in retail for a bit you will see it all. When I worked at Lowe's people would purchase tools, use them and then return then after they finished their job saying they bought the wrong thing, it didnt work and so on. It happens.


Going back to your toaster analogy. If you buy two that are the exact same but with different brands on them and one has a 2 month warranty and the other has a 12. You buy the 2 month one and it craps out at 3 then what would you do? You cant return it because you knowingling bought it. Its the same when you purchase from an orchid vendor. Complaining about their policies that you agreed to when you purchased doesnt do a whole lot of good. Study up on the good ones and read the fine print. If you feel that strongly about it have you contacted the Dept. of Agriculture about orchids.com? Im sure they would like to know about their policies.

The warranty toaster analogy makes no sense in this case, a plant is either virused or it's not, so they either sell it to you virused or not. If a toaster is broken when they sell it to you your return is valid whether it has a lifetime warranty or a 2 hour warranty. Because it came that way.

I would say probably most people that buy orchids, especially phals, don't know about viruses. People (at least in the US) put their trust in a vendor and don't read all the fine print on every website or every store they buy things from. You trust a vendor to do right by the consumer and put a quality product out there, because we know that if it is defective there is something we could do about it. This should be no different for a toaster than it should be for an orchid.

We know about viruses because we are more involved with our orchids than most, we are active on this board and learn as much as we can. Not all people who buy orchids do this, I would think we are a VERY small minority. I feel like it is up to the people that know (us) to try to get the vendors to try to control this problem. Because if we don't, and they don't, then who will? And then this virus problem is just going to get worse and worse.

I have not contacted the department of agriculture but I think I will, thanks for the idea.

---------- Post added at 09:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:43 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Ordphien

Lol... I have a feeling that if you meet the owners of Normans orchids you would understand the distinct lack of customer service...
I still order from them virus or not... as long as my plant doesn't show any signs I really don't care...
Probably more detrimental with a large prized, and expensive collection.
And I still order from them despite bad customer service and purposely garbled return policies and shipping schedules because it exactly what I expected out of them.
That's the kind of people they are. Quite frankly I have the feeling they were raised around and by people who do the same thing.

I don't understand why you would keep giving your money to a business like this. There are so many other places to get nice orchids. You're basically letting them get away with horrible business practices.

A virus may not affect your collection very much, but it does to A LOT of other people. And the more vendors that sell virused plants, the worse the problem is going to get.

[FairyInTheFlowers]

Really, contact the Department of Agriculture, how ridiculous! Can you imagine how many different vendors are out there that may have virused plants? A very large percentage! I bet at least 75% of the members here have one or more plants that have some type of virus without them even knowing or even having a single symptom! Are you going to phone the department to check up on every vendor? Have you taken into consideration that the plant you may have bought that is 'virused' possibly could have caught it from your own collection? There are so many variables when it comes to viruses this is all quite ridiculous! Many plants won't even show signs of viruses unless they have multiple viruses or the plants are weak, stressed, or not treated properly. Plus the common virus testing kits that you can buy are usually unreliable.

[escualida]

Originally Posted by TheBlazingAugust

Really, contact the Department of Agriculture, how ridiculous! Can you imagine how many different vendors are out there that may have virused plants?

Whoa, first of all, I'm not saying I'm going to report every single vendor that ever sells me a virused plant. I'm referring to one vendor that is notorious for selling virused plants that won't give refunds unless you return said plants to them. I think that's a little suspicious and makes me think they are knowingly turning around and selling said plants to other unsuspecting customers.

Originally Posted by TheBlazingAugust

A very large percentage! I bet at least 75% of the members here have one or more plants that have some type of virus without them even knowing or even having a single symptom! Are you going to phone the department to check up on every vendor?

You're right, I'm sure A LOT of people have virused plants, does this make it OK? Should we ignore the problem and hope it goes away by itself?

Originally Posted by TheBlazingAugust

Have you taken into consideration that the plant you may have bought that is 'virused' possibly could have caught it from your own collection? There are so many variables when it comes to viruses this is all quite ridiculous!

I did in fact take that into account and came to the conclusion that no, they did not catch it from any of my plants. Here is why: 3 of the 5 infected orchids came from Orchids.com, that's not a coincidence. The other 2 had their siblings tested by the vendors and surprise, surprise, viruses found. None of my other 45 or so other orchids have viruses.

Originally Posted by TheBlazingAugust

Many plants won't even show signs of viruses unless they have multiple viruses or the plants are weak, stressed, or not treated properly.

Yes, I am aware that some plants don't show signs of viruses but that doesn't mean that it's not harmful. And even if that specific plant is not harmed by the virus it definitely is able to transmit it to other plants that it CAN be harmful to.

Originally Posted by TheBlazingAugust

Plus the common virus testing kits that you can buy are usually unreliable.

There is always a margin of error, however the plants tested by me were then CONFIRMED to have viruses by a reputable lab.

I'm sorry, I'm not going to agree with people who say that it's "just the way it is". A vendor must stand behind their products, simple as that. Viruses suck and sometimes it's not within the vendor's control, but that doesn't mean that the consumer has to pay the price. It's as simple as that.

[Ordphien]

In the end of all this the only person this upset is you....
I find that to be a monumental waste of energy personally.
But now the warning is out there and people can easily access the information about their virused plants and terrible policies. I know a quick Google of Normans our orchids.com yields tons of results referring to experiences much like yours.
And I also know most people... Especially on the hobby side... do at least a little homework on who they intend to purchase from. So I'm sure word of this will spread fast...
At that point it's up to the person if they want to purchase from them...
I'm certain many people will find it worth the risk, as well as many others who won't.
I personally am a small window sill grower who doesn't really mind if the plant has a virus as long as it continues to grow and flower. And I appreciate the wide selection they give me.
I'm sure a serious enthusiast with a more specialised setup and a wide collection of plants would dread the thought of a virus going near their plants.
I would return an obviously sickly or infected plant and would not mind sending it in for replacement. But one that continues to grow unaffected by the virus isn't an issue for me.
Maybe one day it will.. when I have a really special collection.

[Call_Me_Bob]

Originally Posted by TheBlazingAugust

Really, contact the Department of Agriculture, how ridiculous! Can you imagine how many different vendors are out there that may have virused plants? A very large percentage! I bet at least 75% of the members here have one or more plants that have some type of virus without them even knowing or even having a single symptom! Are you going to phone the department to check up on every vendor? Have you taken into consideration that the plant you may have bought that is 'virused' possibly could have caught it from your own collection? There are so many variables when it comes to viruses this is all quite ridiculous! Many plants won't even show signs of viruses unless they have multiple viruses or the plants are weak, stressed, or not treated properly. Plus the common virus testing kits that you can buy are usually unreliable.

Well put Cody, I firmly agree.

Originally Posted by escualida

Whoa, first of all, I'm not saying I'm going to report every single vendor that ever sells me a virused plant. I'm referring to one vendor that is notorious for selling virused plants that won't give refunds unless you return said plants to them.

Think about it, is it really that horrendous for a company to require you return the product you are unhappy with? If you go to a store and buy a sweater, you come home and find that there is a small hole in the sweater; what do you do? YOU RETURN IT! To return something means just that, to return it! You can't expect a company to just blindly ship out plants because you claim it has a virus.

Originally Posted by escualida

I think that's a little suspicious and makes me think they are knowingly turning around and selling said plants to other unsuspecting customers.

You have no proof of that and you really can't make assumptions like that. How do they know that YOU aren't lying to them and trying to scam them out of a free plant? Like I said before, a return is just that, your RETURN it.

Originally Posted by escualida

You're right, I'm sure A LOT of people have virused plants, does this make it OK? Should we ignore the problem and hope it goes away by itself?

No, we shouldn't ignore the problem, we should acknowledge it and have sanitary practices. I personally don't agree with people throwing away every single plant that shows positive on a virus test. Disregarding the fact that the Agdia test strips are wildly erroneous! Viruses are still not harmful unless A. you keep your plants unhealthy. B. There are multiple viruses present. or C. you don't use sanitary practices. If you are careful to use sanitary practices, as one should (I.E. using a sterile blade to make cuts, sterilizing stakes, etc etc), there shouldn't be a problem.

Originally Posted by escualida

Yes, I am aware that some plants don't show signs of viruses but that doesn't mean that it's not harmful. And even if that specific plant is not harmed by the virus it definitely is able to transmit it to other plants that it CAN be harmful to.

See above!! If you are smart enough to be sanitary, there should be no problem. If a plant shows color break or low vigor or other noted signs of a virus, that's fine throw it away. If the plant tests positive for a virus, I wouldn't necessarily throw it away; but that's your choice go ahead and throw away your money. But to go and openly attack a vendor, that's a little ridiculous!

Ps. in the future, it would be wise to read the return policy