Light candle preference

[Candice]

I have been trying to see what works with phals for number of light candles.....I bought this light intensity meter, which measures either the sun, high intensity, or fluorescent light. It goes up to 5000 footcandles.

Little background:
Phals are potted in bark/charcoal mix in clear plastic containers. Grown outside but underneath a nonclosed in porch, if that makes sense. They are a little too dark green, compared to some I have seen posted here at the OB. They don't seem to be putting out spikes, which now is the time. They have all grown and are growing leaves AND new root growth. I fertilize every watering, except last two, because I thought maybe too much nitrogen to flower?!?
I fertilize with Orthos growth, and bloom buster every fourth watering. I live in Enterprise AL where it is always humid.

I always read about phals being no more than 1000 footcandles, but when mine are outside in the natural light at around 800 footcandles, they start to get sun spots.

Anyone have any suggestions?

I know dennis said in a previous thread he likes to use higher light than most. And if you see this dennis, could you also reply on your light source?

Thanks for any responses!

Candice

[Ross]

My experience with lots of Phals over the years is that they seem to take well to low light (750 FCs or so.) While I agree with Dennis that high light seems to make them respond, it may cause leaf burn for some folk depending on latitude. Don't forget, we are more northerly and the sun is weaker. I realize, foot-candles is foot candles, but I think UV has an effect here as well. Maximum foot-candles is reached when sun gets perpendicular to the plants. This may be at noon, or not depending on your latitude. Then it decreases over the day. (Actually it raises over the morning, also.) If clouds cross the sun, then foot-candles may decrease, but UV stays approximately the same. Ever hear of warnings of going to the beach on cloudy days and having to wear sunscreen? Same thing here (my suspition.) Only way to reduce UV and foot-candles both is with some sort of screening. We don't need to do that at these northerly latitudes, but you might. This is just my guess since my experience has been at 45 degrees latitude.

[Dorothy]

Hmm
How do we market orchid sunscreen?
Should it be in a lotion or spray on?

(Ross - I'll cut you in for 5% for the idea )

[Ross]

Candice, if you are outside in Alabama, I would go for shade. Dot: I don't need the income, but thanks for the thought, 'cause some day my wife may Her names's Dorothy and she goes by Dot or Dottie, thus I call you Dot.

[Candice]

Thanks Ross, I appreciate it.
What you said does make sense.
They are all in the shade but I just think too much shade. Then if I move them somewhere else outside it will be in direct sun, unless I mount them on the trees in the yard that will give them cover, but dapple sun. I guess I will check into some other options......

Just thought I would hear from more folks that had similar conditions and what they were doing.....

I just know that my phals aren't spiking because of the light problem.

[gixrj18]

Try keeping them in the shade, and placing some white objects in the sun, around the perimeter. This will reflect more light towards them, while still keeping them cool, in the shade. Ortho's orchid book says that Phals need 1000-1500 to spike, but that's all relative to the temp. and humidity, I would think. I wouldn't want to give it that much in a dry, hot climate with no breeze.

[dennis]

maybe this will help you out and clear up some confusion
Lumen: This is the basic unit of light. If you could grab a bunch of light in your arms, the term
would describe the amount of light that you have. Since this is the description of the TOTAL amount
light, it would go to follow that if you stuffed that light (the ball that you had in your arms) into
the amount of lumens you have is still the same. Conversely, if you let the ball of light expand
the room the amount of lumens is also the same. Foot Candle: This is the basic unit of light intensity or how much light you shine on a given area.
foot candle is based on how many lumens of light you shine on a given area (measured in square feet). An example would be: If you shine one lumen of light on one square foot - you get one candle. If you shine 10 lumens on one square foot - you get 10 foot candles. Light intensity is
really counts for plant growth. This is the term that you need to understand, for we will be talking about it the most. Watt: The watt is a unit of energy that is commonly applied to electricity. We will be using this
in relation to artificial lighting. Lumens per Watt: This is relation to artificial lighting. Lumens-per-watt refers to how many lumens of light that a bulb generates per watt of electrical usage. The higher the ratio, the more efficient the lighting system will be. Reference Points Outside Daylight: This is the biggy! Direct outside daylight in the summer time is somewhere in the neighborhood of 10,000 foot candles. This is equal to 10,000 lumens per square foot. If you already know a little bit about lighting, you will find this really amazing. If not, as this information continues it will eventually hit you as amazing. Overcast Daylight: 1,000 foot candles. Open Shade: While standing under a large tall tree, you experience the amount of light referred to as open shade. The light intensity you experience here is somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 foot candles. Deep Shade: 50 to 100 foot candles. Average Lit Room: 5 to 10 foot candles. Full Moonlight: .02 foot candles. Starlight: .00011 foot candles Now is this amazing or what? The human eye is extremely sensitive, it can see from daylight all
way down to starlight. This is a ratio of 90 million to 1! Even more amazing is the fact that the eye can make the bulk of this adjustment in a fraction of a second. the rest happens in about 20 minutes. Having brought this to light, you can understand how it is easy to come to the conclusion that
unknowingly unsuitable light source would actually seem bright enough to grow plants under by looking at it.
if you are getting sunburn then i would say that they are getting to much direct sun on them. you do not need to have them in direct sunlight to achieve higher light. my phals are grown in the same light as are my 2 catts and one of the catts is sending up a sheath so i know that it is recieving plenty of light to bloom. i also have a nodossa growing 8 inches away from my phals which is also considered a high light plant and it is looking like it wants to spike, next to the nodossa are 3 cymbidiums two have been sitting there for around 2 months the other i just got back from my mom who had it while it was in bloom. the two that have not been moved have more new growth on them than the weeds in the flower beds where as the one that has been growing inside has i think 2 new growths on it. all my plants get rain water with no fertilizer i stopped using it around a month ago. i do give the phals k-l-n rooting concentrate to help promote root growth as i believe that regard less of the plant type wether it is a orchid or a rose if the root system can not support the plant then you will have nothing but problems when it comes time for it to bloom. the only problem growing in a high light is that it will cause the colors not to be as vibrant. when the buds sart to appear you then can move it to a less light area and hae no effect on the color. my mottled leaf paphs are in a low light and cool area and the foliage is spectacular right now with some nice blue color in the foliage and once again when they start to bud i will move them back up to help maintain the fullest color in the blooms. if your meter is reading 800 foot candles in full sun then your meter may need to be recalibrated or something else may be wrong with it. as ross mentioned yes you can get sunburned on a overcast day this is caused by the uv rays not the light intensity, this is why you see sunscreen rated for uv rays and not foot candle protection. you also need to remember that everything you read on the internet is not a scientific fact it is most likely someones own opinion or a copy and paste from joe shmucks website. when they say phals are needed to grow in low light it could be true because of where they are found. mostly in the asian countries which like ross says has a lot to due with the sun location in your hemisphere. so if a orchard is found on the equator growing under a tree it is considered a lower light needing plant, you, me and just about anyone else here growing these are no where close to the equator. if the light measured 700 foot candles under the tree on the equator then what would it measure here due to the weaker intensity that is found farther away from the equator, lets say 300. if this is the case then your plant will grow some wonderful foliage but may never bloom and if it does then it may only put out one or two buds. this is why you always see pepople asking why is it that my plant only put out a few blooms compared to when i bought it. it is more than likely it is not recieving enough light. not trying to sound mean but read as much as you can and learn from trying different things, everyone here has a completely different growing condition from the next, there are no miracle growing media,pots,fertilizer and so on it is a trial and error learning experience. one other thing to consider is that hybrid phals are crossed bred so many time now it is rediculous,but understand that when you break them down to parentage one may be a warm high light grower and the other may be a cooler low light grower so you are trying to accommodate each parent which is pretty hard to do

[Ross]

Dennis, I think I agree! I read most of your post and agreed with just about all of it (go figure). My few remaining Phals (did you see my post about the hail storm that pretty-much wiped out my collection?) now grow intermingled with both Paphs and Brassias and Brassia crosses. I figure I have at least 1500 foot-candles. But I am at 45 degrees latitude. Alabama is much closer to equator. We are saying the same thing, right? My Phals will get "full sun" through a window screen for a couple hours. But they aren't outside. What are we recommending to Candice outdoors or in?

Oh, yeah, forgot to add that I slowly accustomed mine to that much light.

[Candice]

Dennis, Thank you very much and I understand what you are saying. Please don't think they are in direct sun, because they are from it. They actually don't receive any direct sun...ever. So the light meter is not in direct sun, it is placed at the same level and held by the leaves of the phals, but with the censors up towards the sky so I can tell how much lumen, I think is the right term you used, there is at the actually plant level and close vicinity of the plant.
I hope this explained it alittle more, it is hard for me to word how I took the reading I guess...I just held it right next to the plant......
Dennis you are very right about the internet and how everyone does their own thing and very differently. I really appreciate you writing that long post about the lightcandles.
Oh and I remembered what you said if they start turning reddish-purple...yes they did that today, so now I took them back farther away from the lightsource, the sun, even though they are under an large overhang from the roof.
Anyways, I guess I just have to try the trial and error, which I don't want to do with them and kill them all. I just want them to spike and then flower, and after putting out new leaves and roots, I was told that a spike would form. I hope I am not mistaken, because I now feel as if I will yelled at when I look at this thread!!!
Dennis, I hope this doesn't irritate you, I feel that I really need as much advice from you as I can get. Rsfrid, from you also!!!

I don't think I would be able to grow them indoors due to the AC temp in the house and also the light. I live in a townhouse, and even though its an end unit, I don't have great east, west, or south exposure. So I would have to come up with some major growing plans in the house, along with equipment.
AARRRGGGHHHHH!!!!
Thanks again for responding and trying to help me!

[dennis]

if you want them to spike then bring them in at nite in the cool air for 5 weeks or so then back out in the morning and this will set them to spike. if they are ready