Venosa seedling leaf confusion

[mossmac]

Hi there,

I was just wondering what the leaf shape of a seedling Phalaenopsis venosa should look like?

Three weeks ago I bought a flask of venosa seedlings ('dark' form). They all have long, slender and 'pointy' leaves.

In the post today, I received an individual 'venosa' seedling, but the shape of the leaves is totally different to that of the flask seedlings. This one has very rounded, almost 'oval' shaped leaves. It is probably a bit older than the flask seedlings, but not much.

I was wondering if flask seedlings have 'juvenile' leaves that then change to the 'mature' leaf shape? Or could it be that either the latest seedling plant or the flask seedlings are not venosas at all!!?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

P.S. - I would post photos but can't at present as camera has gone on the blink!

[mossmac]

I looked at some images of venosa seedlings on Google and they very definitely are the same shape as the individual venosa seedling I received in the post yesterday. Which leads me to wonder what on earth my 'so called' venosa flask seedlings are. They look very healthy! I suppose only time will tell!

[Carl Austin]

The objective with Phalaenopsis is to get the leaves "round" as you describe on your seedling. This is accomplished with good all round culture under good light levels. Plants that come out of flask need to get established before they go to higher light levels at which time their leaves will become "round".

Carl

[mossmac]

I managed to sort out the camera so am posting some pictures.

[Carl Austin]

That is what Phalaenopsis will typically look like when they come out of flask. The last picture is the leaf shape you should aim for.

I find it's generally a better idea to put freshly deflasked seedlings into community pots rather than placing them in idividual pots where the risk of rotting them off is fairly high. You might want to cosider that for future deflaskings.

Carl

[mossmac]

Many thanks for your reply. It is very reassuring that the leaves of the flask seedlings will (hopefully!) change shape when they adapt to higher light levels. I was really worried that they were not venosas at all! As I am new to growing seedlings from flask, information like this is really helpful.

With regards to potting seedlings into community pots, thanks for the advice. The most recent flask I have purchased (schilleriana seedlings) I have put into community pots.

[Undergrounder]

Hi mossmac, yes i know the flasks you bought, they're venosa 'Dark' x self.. 'Dark' is just the name of the particular plant that was selfed to give these flasklings. It's called 'Dark' because it has a brown/red coloured overlay that almost completely covers the petals and sepals.

But the seedlings you have could look like anything, and they will all be different, because they are not clones, but seedlings.

As to the leaf shape, yes Phal leaves that come out of flask are usually long and thin, and they generally put out much thicker, round leaves after they've been deflasked.

That's one reason why 'Leaf-span' is a very dodgy reference for how old a plant is, especially ones sold on e-bay. A very young plant just deflasked could have a leaf-span much larger than a plant 6 - 12 months out of flask, because older plants have stockier leaves.. i've seen this trick abused a lot on Aust. ebay recently. Flasks bought for about $35, deflasked, and then the individual seedlings sold right out of flask for up to $35 each.

[mossmac]

Thanks for your reply, Undergrounder. I know what you mean about plants being sold that have literally just come out of a flask - not good. I have been very disappointed a couple of times after getting such orchids (off Ebay!). They take such a very long time to get going too, as their root system is so poorly developed.

Thank you for your explanation of 'venosa dark x self' and also reassuring me that phals leaves normally look like this when they come out of a flask! I am certainly learning a lot!

[Royal]

I have to disagree with the idea that the leaf shape will totally change. Leaf shape is an inherited trait, just as in flower shape, color, vigor, etc. Good culture will improve these attributes to some extent, but genetics are the primary factors.

It is theorized that round leaves correlate to rounder flowers, so selective breeding for flower shape also creates offspring with rounder foliage. BUT, if the breeding line is aimed at a different characteristic (dark color), the stud plants are selected without as much regard to shape.

In other words, they're both the same species but have different genes - like you and me. Asking about standard leaf shape for a species is like asking what is the standard shoe size or hair color for humans. There is a range, but no real answer.