Relying solely on lights - advice for my next setup?

[Ross]

Originally Posted by Deborah

That would be perfect for yet another area that I would like to transform into a growing room
Maybe I just need to buy a large greenhouse and move into it, (now there is an Idea )just kidding .

Now think about it (I have ). What's the cost of heating and maintaining a greenhouse? Why do you need one? The cost of lights is way less than propane (or however you'd heat the glass budget-killer). If you have the space in a basement, that's the way to go. You read John's post, right?

[calvin_orchidL]

I think I agree! It's so shady here in the winter anyway (and cold) the heating and lighting bills would be disgusting!

Checked out John's post - awesome! It really complemented the talk that was given at our local society meeting last sunday by a great grower by the name of Wendy Hoffman, who has an 8' by 8' grow room in the basement...best of all, her heating is all covered by the heat generated by the ballasts of her 3 HID lights!

One day I'll have one of those...either that, or move to florida!

[Ross]

Originally Posted by calvin_orchidL

I think I agree! It's so shady here in the winter anyway (and cold) the heating and lighting bills would be disgusting!

Checked out John's post - awesome! It really complemented the talk that was given at our local society meeting last sunday by a great grower by the name of Wendy Hoffman, who has an 8' by 8' grow room in the basement...best of all, her heating is all covered by the heat generated by the ballasts of her 3 HID lights!

One day I'll have one of those...either that, or move to florida!

Wendy's a member here http://www.orchidboard.com/community...gara-show.html just a sample. Haven't heard from her in a while, but I'm sure she is still around.

[calvin_orchidL]

yeah I thought I'd seen her around here

Okay I'm seriously considering a 4ft 4light T5 setup, but I've looked around (Ebay etc..) and I notice that there is quite the range of pricing. For instance, our local hydroponics shop sells them for 400 dollars, specialty lights sells them for 250, and on ebay I see them for 150!

I feel like somehow the fixture varies between brands - Ross you recommended NewWave - why is this one better? I saw some site (can't find it now) that said Tek is the best, but the ebay seller is selling the 4x4 Tek lights for cheaper than the new wave ones .... I'm really confused

Any help would be appreciated!

[calvin_orchidL]

And I almost forgot...I was looking at this link: http://www.aos.org/aos/uploadedfiles...edcattleya.pdf

And it says that catts need 3000+ Fc....so I don't think my T5s will be enough to bloom catts - Deb - you have natural light to supplement so I can see why your vandas are loving the additional artificial light, but I fear that I may not have enough light with T5s

[Deborah]

That is vey true, I don't think I could have bloomed them on just one or the other.

[Ross]

Originally Posted by calvin_orchidL

yeah I thought I'd seen her around here

Okay I'm seriously considering a 4ft 4light T5 setup, but I've looked around (Ebay etc..) and I notice that there is quite the range of pricing. For instance, our local hydroponics shop sells them for 400 dollars, specialty lights sells them for 250, and on ebay I see them for 150!

I feel like somehow the fixture varies between brands - Ross you recommended NewWave - why is this one better? I saw some site (can't find it now) that said Tek is the best, but the ebay seller is selling the 4x4 Tek lights for cheaper than the new wave ones .... I'm really confused

Any help would be appreciated!

I have no personal knowledge or opinion on the Tek lights. I used the Sunblaze 44 (4 foot, 4 tube) for over a year and I was not satisfied it was working correctly. The company offered to replace ballast but I still needed a replacement. Becca (another Orchiboard member out in Idaho) recommended New Wave and I tried it. It was a bit more money but ships with bulbs. The Sunblaze did not - they were extra. The New Wave uses 95% reflectance German aluminum and the Sunblaze has a mirror-like reflector. The New Wave is approx 2" wider than Sunblaze therefore has a different reflector design. I think this combo gives the higher foot-candles.

Now on the Cats - yes the books and growers say 3000+ foot candles, however I contend that is based on greenhouse growing where light intensity varies over the day length. So if you strive to provide 3000+ foot candles, you will certainly get much less than that at dawn and dusk and cloudy days. However with indoor lights, the intensity is at "full bore" seconds after the lights turn on and stays that way steadily for the length of day you,ve chosen. I believe the accumulated light energy in the plant may actually be higher with light growing, than in many bright windowbox situations or even greenhouses, especially at our latitude. If you check the pictures John included throughout that long post, he is using even t8's and blooming Cats. Don't fall into the trap I did at first and design your setup on specs alone. There's more here to consider than just the specs. There are just too many successful growers of all sorts of orchids who grow exclusively under lights. I think Wendy does, in fact. I was hoping Bill (Ocelaris on the Board) would chime in since he has all the science info we would ever need and can either confirm or correct my assumptions. I'll PM him and see what he has to offer.

[Ocelaris]

Sorry, I've been plotting my new Vanda chamber! But, Ross has pretty much layed it out.

The Tek systems are the most popular I think because they look a little snazzier (black colored), and also since coral reef tanks are the primary user, they come with the right bulbs (actinic ultra blue) as a standard configuration. The New Wave is about 120$ cheaper, and I think that's a major plus. Ross has looked into both systems, so he has a better idea of the reflector... Just remember that the major consumers of a product usually skews the preference, so that's why the new wave probably isn't touted as much...


The estimates of "required" lights on many sites are way off... I have 1000-1800 lumens on a Vanda/Asc, and it's almost too much.... blooming very happily and rooting very well, my mini cats and LCs are also doing superb in the 1000-2000 FC range. Like Ross said, it's sustained light energy, so a steady diet of 1500 lumens is greater than a 3000 max day with plenty of clouds.

All in all, don't worry about the "numbers" they're only reference points. Aim for the numbers, but realize they're trumped by real world experience, see what everyone else is doing, because greenhouse gardening is a whole different ball game. I'm sure we all wish we had one, but as is, our needs and constraints are diferent.

If your height is going to stay within 12" of the tops of most of the plants, then I would say definetly go with the T-5s because you can get a lot closer than the Metal Halides, even the 100w.

The Metal Halides are a point source, so if you have the lights far away, you can get a denser focus with a good reflector, but they've got all the heat focused in a tiny little area, where as fluorescents have it dispersed. But I would reccomend keeping the T-5s encapsulated away from the plants, as they both benefit from higher heat (the bulbs) and the plants benefit from less heat.

I'm sure someone already provided you links, but just first google hit took me to this site, and it's 120$ difference...

All of the bulbs from the New Wave are GE brand, 85 CRI for reference.

Tek 4 bulb 4ft kit 215w $374
Tek Light T5 Fluorescent Aquarium Light 4ft 4 bulb 216W

New Wave T5 4ft x 4 bulb $247
New Wave T5 Fluorescent Grow Light 4ft 4 Bulb 216W

[calvin_orchidL]

Deb - what I wouldnt' give for nice windows

Ross that makes a lot of sense - I didn't even think about it that way. From a biochemical perspective the enzymes will constantly be active with the non-changing stream of light. Thanks for the reassurance!

With that in mind, I think I will go ahead and get the new-wave T5s - I think a 4ft by 4tube one would be good. Thanks for all your advice!

EDIT - bill I must have posted at the same time as you. Thanks for the great info. 250 bucks isn't completely unreasonable - now to find a source that ships to canada without further breaking the budget! I'm tempted to just buy them from the local hydroponics store, but 400 is a little ridiculous. This is really great info though about the sustained light. I was wondering why my phals were doing so well with 12 hours of only 200fc when they're recommended to have at least 500fc.

[SheilaJ]

I got a 4 tube T5 high output fixture a year ago on ebay from a seller called "greatlights4less!" I am very pleased with it. I forget the price - maybe $175 to $200? Be careful reading the listings, though - he lists a fixture with 8 bulbs, but it's a 4 tube fixture with 2 sets of bulbs, not an 8 tube fixture.

I've misplaced my light meter, but this puppy is blazingly bright. I am currently flowering tropical waterlilies under it! With my old cheap shop lights, they merely survived through the winter with tiny leaves and no buds.

I too have longed for a greenhouse, but I couldn't afford the heating bills, especially now that energy prices are going up so fast. Growing under lights is definitely the way to go, if you have the room. I currently have a 9x11 foot spare bedroom full of lights, and I am working on expanding into the basement or playroom (hubby has put his foot down for now). Hmmm, once the kid leaves for college, her bedroom would make a nice orchid room....