Not Understanding LED Tape?

[ALToronto]

See - this is what you get with forums. All different opinions, and when you don't know enough to make a good decision, you can end up spending a lot of $ for a suboptimal solution.

1. I would stay away from red/blue lights due to high cost and limited spectrum.

2. Fluorescents, even though they look white, are also limited spectrum. They have a few peaks that kind of add up to a white colour, but plants are smarter than we are and can tell the difference. Also, even though fluorescents are cheap to buy and easy to set up, the electricity will cost you far more in the long run than spending money upfront on LEDs.

3. Tape is not a good solution. Individual diodes of white LEDs are much cheaper than Amateur_expert has said (around $1 each for 5 W if you buy from China), and will provide you with enough light. The downside is that you will need to learn how to solder. Here is an alternative for inexpensive almost plug and play white lights (you need to wire the plugs). If you get a combination of warm and cool white LEDs, you will get an almost complete spectrum. The prices are very reasonable, and the quality of the lights is excellent - I have bought from this manufacturer before. You will need to negotiate shipping costs, it's a major component.

Shenzhen Sunway Optoelectronic Technology Co., Ltd.

George Zhao is the guy to deal with.

4. Get low light plants and avoid the issue altogether.

[Amateur_expert]

This is funny. I've seen a few snide remarks on this forum before, but I thought maybe it was a fluke. I was wrong - ALToronto apparently has an attitude problem.

So without the attitude, here's the information to counter ALToronto's attitude filled semi-information.

The quality of LED's are important. Yes, you can always get cheapo LED's, but in the real world you get what you pay for. I know that when I buy Philips Lumileds the color spectrum is correct and the LED's are within the stated variances of the spec sheets. I also know that they won't randomly burn out due to cheap manufacturing. I do not know that with no-name brand LEDs. They might work, they might not. Its a risk

The price is exactly what I said. Take a look at Red (627 nm) Rebel LED, Pre-Mounted On A 20mm Star Base - 102 lm @ 700mA. The LEDs are mounted to the stars aready. All around $6USD (Maybe I should have said USD so poo didn't get thrown). The LED itself is around $2 (LXM3-PD01 | LUXEON Rebel SMT High Power LED Emitter Deep Red Lambertian 350 mA 260 lm Min | LUMILEDS - Future Electronics). But then you still need to get the start to mount it to. Plus the flux, solder, thermal paste or epoxy, and something to heat the whole apparatus up with.

If you want to see more detail about this go look at the post called "High-power LEDs).

Believe it or not, white LEDs cost basically the same as red and blue LEDs. So I don't know why they are said to cost more? Actually - some white LEDs cost way more than red or blue - look at the Altilon.

Before you read what people say as an opinion as fact - research it yourself. PAR is the measurement of light at useable ranges for plants. Chlorophyll A and B react highly to the nm (nanometer wavelengths) of red and blue light. Green light may have a slight effect on them as well. Read this - Photosynthetically active radiation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia And look up what chlorophyll A and B are. You'll see for yourself.

I would say go with LED's if you have the money - exactly what I said before. But if you don't I would still look at flourecents. The reason is that they are cheaper. And though refuted, you can get fluorescent lighting with specific kelvin ratings. For instance that 6,500k that you mentioned. I would personally get 5,000K as it has a good balance but leans towards the vegetative growth of the plant. 2,000k-3,000k are good for flowering. If you have both and time it with the season, I see no reason why your plants won't act like they would in nature at least as far as photosynthesis is concerned.

I do agree with ALToronto - it would be beneficial if you learned how to solder. In the future it comes in handy with advanced lighting.

Also, T5HO is good, but depending on what you have access to, there are T10VHO and even T12VHO 5,000K lights that have more output per foot than a T5HO. T5's are just more common.

---------- Post added at 10:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:41 AM ----------

Originally Posted by ALToronto

See - this is what you get with forums. All different opinions, and when you don't know enough to make a good decision, you can end up spending a lot of $ for a suboptimal solution.

1. I would stay away from red/blue lights due to high cost and limited spectrum.

2. Fluorescents, even though they look white, are also limited spectrum. They have a few peaks that kind of add up to a white colour, but plants are smarter than we are and can tell the difference. Also, even though fluorescents are cheap to buy and easy to set up, the electricity will cost you far more in the long run than spending money upfront on LEDs.

3. Tape is not a good solution. Individual diodes of white LEDs are much cheaper than Amateur_expert has said (around $1 each for 5 W if you buy from China), and will provide you with enough light. The downside is that you will need to learn how to solder. Here is an alternative for inexpensive almost plug and play white lights (you need to wire the plugs). If you get a combination of warm and cool white LEDs, you will get an almost complete spectrum. The prices are very reasonable, and the quality of the lights is excellent - I have bought from this manufacturer before. You will need to negotiate shipping costs, it's a major component.

Shenzhen Sunway Optoelectronic Technology Co., Ltd.

George Zhao is the guy to deal with.

4. Get low light plants and avoid the issue altogether.

Before you start running off at the lip, it's best to find sources that back you up...just a hint on how to throw poo and argue effectively. You should know about future electronics btw - they're in Canada too...

[silken]

I'm not going to wade in too deeply into this one, but bear in mind that there has been talk for several years in the U.S. at least and I think in Canada of discontinuing T12's as being too much of energy hogs. I read official reports saying it should have already happened (I think in 2012 or 2013) but they still seem to be available. I just hate to see you invest $$ in something that MAY be on the way out. I would opt for the HO (high output) T5's which are much smaller and supposedly more energy efficient. They are common and fairly easy to find. Going with 6400k would give you a full spectrum bulb and many orchid growers use them successfully (including myself). LED's are fine too, but I think they need to become more common and less expensive before there will be a lot of people putting them to use.

[Amateur_expert]

Originally Posted by silken

I'm not going to wade in too deeply into this one, but bear in mind that there has been talk for several years in the U.S. at least and I think in Canada of discontinuing T12's as being too much of energy hogs. I read official reports saying it should have already happened (I think in 2012 or 2013) but they still seem to be available. I just hate to see you invest $$ in something that MAY be on the way out. I would opt for the HO (high output) T5's which are much smaller and supposedly more energy efficient. They are common and fairly easy to find. Going with 6400k would give you a full spectrum bulb and many orchid growers use them successfully (including myself). LED's are fine too, but I think they need to become more common and less expensive before there will be a lot of people putting them to use.

Interesting. I haven't heard of the T12 being discontinued. I have to look into that. Do you have the article?? I know everyone is freaking out about the T5HO's right now. The specs on T12VHO's are just better. Energy hogs or not

Seriously though, if you have that article, please link to it. I'd like to read it so I can see the thought process and whose saying it.

As far as T5HO's go, Hortilux is coming out with a new one that is supposed to be very good. Here's a link - PowerVEG T5 Grow Lamp | EYE HORTILUX^®

kg5, if Silken is right, I would go to the T5HO - no need to throw money away if the manufacturers are planning on discontinuing the T12VHO (Even though it's better than a T5HO). But either way, remember for a large area it's still going to cost a good bit - it just won't be as hard or time consuming as LEDs.

[silken]

https://www.progress-energy.com/asse...out_M_jcb1.pdf Here is a link to one of many reports I found on the web regarding the phasing out of T12's. Just enter a few words like T12's to be discontinued in Google and you will find all sorts of reports saying the same thing. I don't really agree with Amateur expert that T12's are better than T5's. I've used both and do quite well with the T5's and they take up way less space. The HO T5's are supposed to be twice the light of 1 T12 also.

[Amateur_expert]

They are not 2x the lumen output per bulb. Maybe someone with a PAR meter can verify that in terms of 665nm, 465nm, 673nm, and 726nm??? I'm curious actually


T12VHO = 11,600 total lumens = 1,481.48 Lumens per foot.

T5HO = 6,650 total Lumens = 1,382.54 Lumens per foot.


Agree or not, foot for foot - a single T12VHO puts out more light than a single T5HO @ 6,500K. The wattage is higher - but it is still more light. If you were to put multiples of the T5HO per foot, the system would pay off. Per watt the T5 does put out more Lumens so it would probably pay off to do the T5HO. So, my bad on the T12VHO. I didn't do the math beforehand It's all in the math with the variable being what you pay per kwh. lol, I corrected myself?!? Strange occurrences these days.

So Silken is right kg5, if you end up going with fluorescents - go with the T5HO and get as many as you can afford. Don't forget the Mylar to minimize absorption by that brick and other stuff.

Ref:
https://www.1000bulbs.com/category/f...rescent-tubes/
https://www.1000bulbs.com/category/f...t-tubes-6500k/
Calculator

[Amateur_expert]

Silken
"How can you possibly say I replied with an attitude??? I promptly gave you a link to info on discontinued T12's as you asked and merely stated I disagreed on your opinion of T12's being better than T5's. I did so politely and with reasons why, while not criticizing your opinion in any way. There is nothing
wrong with disagreeing in a civil manner. You can't always be correct in this world. Get real! I think you are far too sensitive. This forum is generally a very friendly and helpful forum and I have NEVER been accused of having attitude before. I must say it would seem if anyone has one it is you. "


You condescending is what I am referring to.. I don't know how you do it in Canada, but that is rude here in America. I am aware of Google and how to use it. Telling me in a forum that I should just Google it and there's many results is insulting. I was asking specifically for the article you found - not the results of a Google search.

Throwing poo in a PM is unprofessional. Particularly for a "moderator". I would expect you to have a bit more wherewithal and decorum. Though I think your response may have been more emotional than logical.

You can certainly disagree with me. If and when I am wrong - then I would like to be corrected with the facts, but not opinions. It helps me not perpetuate miss-information in the future. I don't get sore when people accuse me of something. I also know I am not always correct. But when the numbers of what I state are correct - disagreeing with no reason but opinion is ignorant.

[silken]

Originally Posted by Amateur_expert

Silken
"How can you possibly say I replied with an attitude??? I promptly gave you a link to info on discontinued T12's as you asked and merely stated I disagreed on your opinion of T12's being better than T5's. I did so politely and with reasons why, while not criticizing your opinion in any way. There is nothing
wrong with disagreeing in a civil manner. You can't always be correct in this world. Get real! I think you are far too sensitive. This forum is generally a very friendly and helpful forum and I have NEVER been accused of having attitude before. I must say it would seem if anyone has one it is you. "


You condescending is what I am referring to.. I don't know how you do it in Canada, but that is rude here in America. I am aware of Google and how to use it. Telling me in a forum that I should just Google it and there's many results is insulting. I was asking specifically for the article you found - not the results of a Google search.

Throwing poo in a PM is unprofessional. Particularly for a "moderator". I would expect you to have a bit more wherewithal and decorum. Though I think your response may have been more emotional than logical.

You can certainly disagree with me. If and when I am wrong - then I would like to be corrected with the facts, but not opinions. It helps me not perpetuate miss-information in the future. I don't get sore when people accuse me of something. I also know I am not always correct. But when the numbers of what I state are correct - disagreeing with no reason but opinion is ignorant.

Amateur expert has sent me a private e-mail accusing me of having an attitude and being condescending from the post of the T12's I made. And then bringing his/her beef and my response to his /her rude e-mail to this post. I am floored since I in no way felt I sounded that way and I didn't feel it when I typed it. All I was doing was providing information and an opinion on T5's versus T12's. I am done with this thread.

[Amateur_expert]

Silken - post what I wrote in response. It is in your email. Do not just refer to it and make a judgment call for people to believe without the facts as backup. Readers do with it as you wish. I want to speak no more on this subject and return to the topic at hand regarding lighting....

---------- Post added at 06:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:10 PM ----------

silken - "You need to realize that when you read typing, it is easy to take out of context. The original article I found re the T12's was on the internet several years ago. But there were many so I helpfully offered one link and said what to Google to get more should you (or anyone) wish to read more. I was not implying you were stupid or couldn't figure it out. Just saying how to find what I found and how I found it. And it was for anyone reading the message, not just you. I in no way intended to sound condescending. I truly think you are jumping top conclusions a little too fast."

Amateur_expert - "I understand that emotional context is removed via typing. However, there are certain artifacts that remain within word usage. For example, "get real!" could be said with a smile or with a straight face and meant as an insult. Typing removes the emotion though in context of the rest of the passage it denotes negativity or an attitude meant to insult. So, emotion does come across in essence via typing. Where it's unclear, emoticons are appropriate. That is why I made the conclusion the way I did and acted appropriately."


I am now done with this! Please resume conversation about the strip lighting - enough flaming and insulting.

[kg5]

This is a clip sent to me on T5's. I can not post a direct link as yet but can copy and paste.

https://youtu.be/7SN2v46VUbA