New LED Lamp

[newone]

I have found at a Hydroponics store the use of two LED reds and two T5 white light in one fixture. How about the best of two worlds?

[butterfly_muse]

Hi, just stumbled on this thread. I am looking to set up a growing light operation in our new place that has a NW facing window shaded by oak trees. Are these lights too bright for Phals? I've also got two African violets and a begoina that enjoys full sun, would these lights work for those guys? Or is it too bright? (I read the African Violet in Ray's house did well, so I was thinking perhaps mine would be happy too). If they would work, how far would I have to keep them (and how many would I need) from each plant type?

[rosemadder]

Has anyone been able to go at one of these with a real light meter? It would be very nice to know the actual output. Phals are easy, but could these lights be used for, say, Vandas etc without sitting directly on the plants?

250fc seems very low, and "looks bright" is not a useful measurement.

[Ray]

Rose, a single one of mine puts out about 1200-1300 lumens.

The reason white LEDs look bright is because the eye is most sensitive to the green region in the middle of the spectrum, where LEDs are quite strong.

[Jayfar]

I just got a couple from Ray yesterday, but I've got to get around to running out to Ikea in the next couple days to pick up the lamps for them, as mentioned upthread. I think I may try one in a clamp lamp and the other in the TERTIAL floor lamp. My first impression besides the brightness is that the casing these LEDs are mounted in looks really stylish.

[aaronsaxton]

I am going to throw in some info here to assist growers. I did extensive testing on LEDs and there are a few things to know.

In summary, the best combination for general vegetative growth is Blue LEDs, Red LEDs coupled with HPS for flowering. For general growth MH with Blue & Red LEDs, followed by a close third choice of Warm Fluros with Red and Blue LEDs.


On a more technical level several things that HID lighting does that LEDs and Fluros do not:

1. Provide UV Light: Often avoided, it should not be. UV light kills plants and living things, but a little of it causes plants to form stronger skin/bark that assists the plant against disease and a multitude of other factors. Flowers exposed to UV light are always more vibrant because the sugars are increased to form pollen and other secretions to protect the plant from the UV light.

2. LED growers are often unaware of a vital factor with Red Light, and that is that PAR at the levels between 605nm-625nm are vital to a plant (often well known) but what is often not known is that when a plant does not have the range of 665-700NM of light, the effect of the red light at 625nm is 25%.

In other words, 1 watt of light at 625nm gets you 1 unit of energy. 1 watt of light at 680nm gets you 1 unit of energy. BUT when you have 1 watt of light at 625nm and 1 watt of light at 680nm you get FOUR units of energy produced by the plant.

Often LED users are left rubbing their heads when they match watt for watt the amount of red light an HID puts out (like HPS) in the red spectrum but do not get the results - it is because they are unaware that HPSs have been labeled "inefficient" because of all the energy they throw above 680nm, when in fact the reason why they "seem to just work better" is because of this often unknown rule about the "double effect" of red light in energy production when the ranges 600-690(ish) are covered.

I tested an LED unit that had 40 watts dedicated to 625nm (and that is an AWFUL LOT). along with 200 watts to other spectrums. When we added 40watts to the 680 nm spectrum (and those LEDs are expensive in that range). The entire growth was DOUBLED.

Often people resort to white LEDs to "fill gaps" on the spectrum, but really, a mix of HPS or strong Fluros WITH Blue and Red LEDs is about as good as you can get.

Often people go for white LEDs because the targeted NM ranges are too precise with LEDs and you miss the benefits. However, using LEDs targeting the Blue and Red Spectrum and then adding HPS/MH/Warm Fluros is exceptionally good - exceptionally good.

LEDs have their uses. One day when they have every LED available from 385-720nm and you can buy them off the shelf, you will only need about 100 watts of LEDs to replace a 1,000 watt HPS/MH/Fluro system.

Until then, you have to cope with what they do have available - as some of the ranges we need the LEDs to be in, are not catered for by the manufacturing market.

[mexorchid]

Originally Posted by Ray

the manufacturer did some tuning of the chips to my specifications, combining different white phosphors and red chips, resulting in more red in the spectrum (supposed to be good for flowering), and better color rendition.

Ray, do you know the wave length of the red LEDs they put? Does the light still look white, or does it now look red-ish?

Originally Posted by aaronsaxton

In summary, the best combination for general vegetative growth is Blue LEDs, Red LEDs coupled with HPS for flowering. For general growth MH with Blue & Red LEDs, followed by a close third choice of Warm Fluros with Red and Blue LEDs.

Aaron, your post is SUPER interesting - THANKS!
I'd very much appreciate if you could give me your opinion to my idea:
I understand that mixing wavelengths gives the best outcome for the plants. Do you see sense in mounting next to Rays LED bulb a little heatsink with 1x1W blue LED, 1x1W red LED (I found 680mn, assuming the red in Ray's light is 625mn) and 1x1W UV LED (420mn) and have this extra light running 4 hours in addition to Ray's bulb.
Does it only make sense if the extra light runs all day same as the bulb?
Would the UV light be too much?
Would this 1x1W red even make a difference?
Any thoughts you have on this really would be very helpful! Thanks

[Ray]

Originally Posted by mexorchid

Ray, do you know the wave length of the red LEDs they put? Does the light still look white, or does it now look red-ish?

Finally heard back - the red chips are 640 nm, according the the manufacturer. As I think I said earlier - they look white, not orange, to the eye.

I am looking at another, larger array - 48 x 3W with lenses - consisting of 650nm red, warm & cool white. Still prefer such a combo for viewing, and they seem to grow well, too.

Anyone have a recommendation as to the preferred lens dispersion angle?

[naoki]

Originally Posted by Ray

Finally heard back - the red chips are 640 nm, according the the manufacturer. As I think I said earlier - they look white, not orange, to the eye.

I am looking at another, larger array - 48 x 3W with lenses - consisting of 650nm red, warm & cool white. Still prefer such a combo for viewing, and they seem to grow well, too.

Anyone have a recommendation as to the preferred lens dispersion angle?

That will be nice, Ray. I personally prefer relatively wide angle (like 120-90), so I can put it closer to plants, and the lower leaves can get illuminated.

I guess you can't go with reflector type design, instead of lens, can you? Something like:
LED growlight

[rosemadder]

Awesome info, Ray and Aaron! Very cool!