Greenhouse heater size? calculation vs. table

[estación seca]

I echo what Ray says about water as a heat sink. I will show how it helped me. This will be long because I want to give you enough data that you can do calculations and compare it to your proposed structure.

I have a sunroom, approximately 11.5 x 31 feet / 3.5 x 9.5 meters. It is a converted southeast facing patio, tucked into one concave corner of my T-shaped house. The interior short side has one double French door to the house, and the long side has two. The doors have cheap single-pane glass.

The sunroom has a solid roof contiguous with my house. It is polyurethane foam with an elastomeric rubber coating, and an extremely high R value for a roof.

I enclosed the two open sides years ago, with 7 foot / 2.13 meter tall sliding glass doors all the way around, and windows averaging 2.5 feet / 76cm above. There is a 6" / 15.25cm of wood all around between the doors and windows. I used standard, non-efficient sliding glass doors and window glass. The structure is not as tight as it could be; I did not seal the cracks where electrical conduit enters the structure from outside, and the sliding glass door weatherstripping is old.

I left the concrete floor the original 4" / 10cm below the house slab and left it plain concrete, because I knew it would be wet frequently.

I built it to overwinter cacti and succulents, which mostly tolerate winter night temperatures just above freezing. Before enclosure, the patio was far too hot to be usable, for almost any purpose, in summer. For several years before I enclosed it, I grew vigorous annual summer vines up trellises to shade the patio completely, but it was still too hot. I did get a lot of nice yard-long beans, luffa sponges and moon flower morning glories. Enclosing the patio did not change the summer heat problem.

In winter, for 4 hours or so each morning, the sun hits the exposed masonry southeast wall of my house under the overhang. This warms the sunroom to over 80 F / 27C almost every winter day. In summer the sun reaches under the overhang only for an hour or so in the morning. Due to the cheap glass I used, unmodified summer temperatures in the sunroom are above ambient while the sun shines into it, then ambient for the rest of the day and night - far too hot for most plants. I now use a portable evaporative cooler during spring, summer and fall.

It has two electrical circuits: one electric socket, shared with indoor lighting for the adjacent family room, and one overhead light circuit shared with exterior lights. Total amperage is low, since the house was built in 1960.

My winter nights can be colder than yours. I have 0-10 nights down to the upper 20s F / -5C or lower. Most nights are in the 40s F / 3C. My winter days are almost always much warmer than this, so solar gain is substantial.

When I began using the structure, unheated, to overwinter cacti and succulents, I occasionally lost plants close to windows on the coldest nights. They froze solid. Many nights temperatures were somewhat above freezing, warmer near the masonry wall.

When I began growing orchids needing warmer nights, I used an electric space heater and a fan in winter. At close to the maximum amperage for the circuits, I could keep the room at 48-50 F / 9-10C on the coldest nights, but the heater ran all night. Although the room is not tight, I did not want to use combustion to heat it.

When I decided to collect rain I realized it would also serve as a heat sink. I now have 10 x 32 gallon / 121 liter covered (mosquitos!) plastic trash barrels filled with rain in my sunroom, lined up against the house wall, away from the windows. These are the cheapest covered plastic barrels Home Depot sells, $15 each. The plastic is treated with UV stabilizer. Mine are in the shade so this doesn't matter, but they could be used as passive solar collectors.

The sun does not reach my barrels, because shelves and plants along the windows are in the way. Nevertheless, the water is noticeably warm to the touch; they absorb heat passively, even through the plastic. The space heater now only runs briefly during the coldest parts of the coldest nights.

I started with three barrels, and every time I ran out of water before the next rain, I bought two more. That is how I settled on ten. But if I had more barrels in there, I would probably never have to heat the room.

Your proposed structure probably has more surface to lose heat than my sunroom, but you will use more energy-efficient glass. I suspect you could cut your heating bill very low by using interior water storage. If you had an outdoor passive solar collecting system to warm your water storage, I suspect you might not need any supplemental heating on nights following sunny days. I have looked into modifying a solar hot water heater collector to warm my storage tanks, but I really don't need it.

[Ray]

Now that I live on 1/5 acre at the beach, I'll never get to do it, but I always wanted to replicate something I saw in an AOS bulletins years ago:


Some guy dug a 6' deep x 500 yard ditch in his yard. He laid in 18" diameter, unglazed, clay sewer pipe. One end opened into the greenhouse, the other into the open air above ground, protected by a small shelter and air filter. He ran exhaust fans 24/7, pulling air through that pipe into the greenhouse.

In winter, the dry, frigid air was warmed by the earth to the low-60's, so provided heat. Water in the soil permeated the porous pipe, so humidified the otherwise arid air.

In the summer, the hot, humid, outside air was cooled, which also served to drop out the excess moisture, to an absorbed by the clay and put into the soil.

Fantastic, reliable, climate control, at little cost.

[tropterrarium]

Thanks for this very detailed account. With plastic/metal barrels, I have no problem seeing the heat transfer. The build structure on top of pond/reservoir is where I see more issues, namely how radiation gets through a concrete floor.

Water tanks may be a stage two addition for me as well. Currently I have about 32 x 3' benches in the plan, the rest is hanging racks to the floor. I could put water tanks under those benches and even if not perfect, it should make some difference. I also plan on an internal koi & water lily pond, something like 6x6x3 feet. That's another descent amount of water. Still tossing around ideas ...

[Subrosa]

Originally Posted by tropterrarium

Thanks for this very detailed account. With plastic/metal barrels, I have no problem seeing the heat transfer. The build structure on top of pond/reservoir is where I see more issues, namely how radiation gets through a concrete floor.

Water tanks may be a stage two addition for me as well. Currently I have about 32 x 3' benches in the plan, the rest is hanging racks to the floor. I could put water tanks under those benches and even if not perfect, it should make some difference. I also plan on an internal koi & water lily pond, something like 6x6x3 feet. That's another descent amount of water. Still tossing around ideas ...

I plan on a concrete slab 3' below grade with a block structure rising up to a bit above grade. The last course of block will be laid to accommodate 2x8" floor joists. The joists and the entire storage tank will be sealed with epoxy, and composite floor boards will be spaced to allow easy drainage into the tank beneath. An ornamental koi pond would certainly complicate things a bit.

[dounoharm]

great ideas here.....I will love hearing how ray's 'ditch' method works.....ray's last ditch? lol...geo-thermal heating....

[Ray]

Originally Posted by dounoharm

great ideas here.....I will love hearing how ray's 'ditch' method works.....ray's last ditch? lol...geo-thermal heating....

It was neither my idea, nor will I ever try it. However, my next door neighbor in PA was looking into geothermal heating of his home, and the same 500 yards by 6 feed deep trench was one option, although the rocks (boulders) in our yards mandated that he drill wells instead.

[dounoharm]

I always loved the old greenhouses/conservatories that used boilers....we had one that opened to the public at certain times....reynolda gardens....at times they have nice orchids, but in the past 20 years, it has sort of had a lack of maintainence....I learned a lot going thru there!