Help with lean-to greenhouse purchase

[Oyarzabal]

[QUOTE=WaterWitchin;922316]I already have an outside oscillating fan for it. Right now it's hanging under a pergola to point at my orchids. It will be moved. LOL... you're in zone 10b. You don't even HAVE a winter.

Hey more respect with the crude Florida winters. We we hit those 32 degrees once every 7 years. I mean, we used to. Actually, not any more. Never mind.

[Dollythehun]

Propane to keep my greenhouse at 34f cost $900 a winter. It wasn't possible to truck twin wall on to the site.

[WaterWitchin]

Well, an encouraging update. I remembered my orchid buddy in Kansas City who now grows in a greenhouse instead of cave. Duh! I'm so used to the cave I forgot he had to vacate. Reached out to him last night...

One of his greenhouses is on his property. It's 17x25, Lexan roof and tempered glass sides top to bottom on all four walls. Epoxy floor. He said on a cold month, it costs him around $100 to heat with natural gas. It's his "bloom house" for stuff getting ready to sell, and he sells a lot of phals so I know he keeps it pretty warm in winter. We have about three months here we consider "cold," so that's very doable.

This propane must be super expensive stuff! Glad I only have to buy small bottles for my gypsy burner.

It's comforting to know someone who lives within sixty miles who has a greenhouse to compare notes with. It's not so comforting when that someone says I need one like his next size up...30x128... because otherwise I'll run out of room. What are friends for?

Oh... and his small one we're talking about has a bar in it. He indicates that's a necessity. Hmmmmm.....now that's my kinda friend!

---------- Post added at 12:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:45 PM ----------

And interestingly enough... he knows I smoke, and said his wife doesn't allow smoking in the house so when friends are over that smoke they adjourn to the greenhouse. I find that interesting, although I do smoke around them. Always thought it was a real no-no, like in a greenhouse where tomatoes are growing. He said doesn't hurt 'em a bit.

[DirtyCoconuts]

1- quit smoking (cigarettes) it is bad for you
2- EVERY grow house needs a Bar...why did l leave that out of my lath house?????
3- have you considered the heat going from the green house into your house? might help to offset the increased cost of the extra space and youd be getting nice humid 02 rich air??

and 30x128!!!!! can i set up a cot and live there??

[estación seca]

A couple of observations I've made of greenhouses friends have in cold climates.

The more winter insulation the better. One friend had a rigid polycarbonate sheathed greenhouse, built of cedar. The polycarbonate was attached to the outside of the cedar supports. In that era only single-wall polycarbonate was available. He would put a layer of transparent polyethylene landscape sheeting inside his greenhouse in winter, stapled to the inside of the cedar framing. He had holes pierced in the cedar, so it was possible for air to circulate between the exterior rigid polycarbonate and the inner polyethylene sheet. At night he arranged to blow heated air into the space between the polycarbonate exterior sheath and the polyethylene sheeting. This technique was widespread in the Midwest in the 1990s. People who could not afford the then-high price for polycarbonate made greenhouses with polyethylene sheeting inside and outside, with air circulated between the two layers. This technique may have been superseded by triple-wall polycarbonate, which Ray mentioned. It is not nearly expensive as glass used to be. I might point out a weak man can easily lift a 15' x 20' piece of greenhouse polycarbonate sheathing, though it is bulky and difficult to maneuver.

I might also point out the Duke of Devonshire (after whom Dendrobium devoniensis is named) wanted to flower the Victoria water lily in the late 1830s. He had a heated greenhouse of 2,800 square meters / 30,000 square feet, with its own railroad spur to deliver heating coal. The glass cost more than a million current US dollars. He balked at using a new-fangled electric light because it would have been too expensive.

Realize polycarbonate will develop ultraviolet damage, and will need to be replaced in 10 years or so. It is susceptible to hail damage. The Garfield Park Conservatory in Chicago sustained total loss of all their glass greenhouse roofs during a summer hailstorm a few years ago. If this had happened during freezing weather they would have lost their entire collection of plants dating back to the 1870s. Always have on hand enough heavy polyethylene landscape material to cover your greenhouse in hail or snow emergencies.

Many friends dug deep wells for their greenhouse floors, and backfilled with gravel. This absorbs heat during the day. The deeper the layer, the better. A layer of insulating foam below grade against the soil on all sides will keep it warmer. If you have 4" / 10cm diameter pipes sunk in the gravel, and blow greenhouse air through these pipes during sunny winter days, you will heat the gravel. Heat can be released at night, lessening your heating costs.

Large volumes of water inside the greenhouse absorb a lot of heat during sunny days, then release it at night. I have a sunroom which has a short and a long wall of glass doors and windows, a short and a long wall being the house, and a solid insulated foam roof. We have regular nights into the 20s F / -5C. On these nights the sunroom would dip down to somewhat below freezing. I put 10, 32 gallon / 120 liter plastic, lidded (mosquitos) trash barrels into the sunroom, against the house where it is too dark to grow most plants. They are around $15 each at big box hardware stores. I keep them filled with collected rain for my orchids. On the coldest nights, even without heating, it never gets below 50 F / 10C. Of course your winters are colder, but this would still make a big difference to you. I have seen photos of greenhouses with large covered water tanks under each bench. There are many containers available that could serve this purpose.

I have seen commercial growers drape polyethylene sheeting over long greenhouse benches, and set plants over the sheeting. They blow warm air into the tunnel created under benches, rather than into the air. Plants have heat from the bottom. Many plants tolerate cool temperatures better if the roots stay warmer.

[WaterWitchin]

Well thank you so much ES! I've been thinking about how to incorporate water volume into the greenhouse, as I'd read about them helping with heat. It's encouraging to know the difference in temperature at your place. Appears well worth it. I have a 150 gallon oval rubber stock tank we're not using and was considering incorporating it in greenhouse for RO water. That's definitely a must do now.

Ah yes, The Crystal Palace. I've read lots about it, because of my former water garden business. Several fascinating articles about it in the water garden trade. I actually grew a Victoria here in Kansas one year in the outside display pond. Got about 3.5 feet across on the largest leaf. When I moved inside for the winter, it slowly died. Just not enough light (or heat) to keep it going. A fun experiment...

I will have about a three foot gravel pit, unfortunately most of it above ground surrounding by stone, brick, whatever. It's to help bring the floor of the greenhouse up more to step-out level from the house, instead of having a run of stairs down into the greenhouse taking up valuable real estate. I might, though, have a way to put pipes at the base of it, as I plan on having a basement window area blocked out so my water, heat, etc, can be ducted into the greenhouse. I'll explore that concept.

And... most wonderful to see you back again estación. Hopefully you will have time to drop by and visit more often. I've missed your perspective and wisdom. PS Do you happen to grow Podangis dactyloceras? You may need to if you're not....

[estación seca]

Thanks for the greetings! Small, delicate, high-humidity orchids tend not to be happy here except inside jars.

[WaterWitchin]

Originally Posted by estación seca

Thanks for the greetings! Small, delicate, high-humidity orchids tend not to be happy here except inside jars.

Whine.... But you MUST. We're developing a Pondangis Envy club. (See Advanced Thread) There may even be Tshirts later! A cloche maybe? One of those cool log things we're working at making?

[estación seca]

I decide which pickles to buy based on how good the jar would be for a terrarium.

[WaterWitchin]

Excellent idea. Especially if they're dill. Not a big sweet pickle fan, unless they're in a meat or potato salad, etc.

Speaking of which, I got an excellent sweet/hot pickle recipe at the end of last summer. Need to look that up between now and cucumber season and post it in the recipe thread! Goals.