Worried about fragrance of dendrobium kingianum

[NYCorchidman]

I know what you mean, but some fragrance does smell different to different people I think or some people just describe scent horribly wrong as you say. lol

For a very good example, have you smelled Oncidium Sharry Baby? It is famously known as chocolate orchid, which I think is just a marketing gimmick because I do not find any chocolate smell from it at all. Vanilla of some sort or certain cookie dough smell, which often has vanilla extract. lol

Many orchid fragrance is very hard to correctly describe because they are very complex and often there really isn't much reference to compare it to and make it understood by others.

So best thing is "very nice!" which does not really say much.

I think one just has to experience many fragrant orchids in person and then just say "oh, Brassavola nodosa fragrance!" or "Cattleya Lemon Schiffon scent!". That's about as accurate as it can get and many people in the hobby know and just do that.


If you don't like coconut smell, then you want to stay away from Maxillaria tenuifolia.
Not only it smells like coconut, but it is so strong that it can easily fill up a library. lol

If you ever end up in perfume industry, I have a request. Make one that smells like Neofinetia and miltoniopsis.

[katrina]

Originally Posted by astrid

So, while your scent preferences are highly subjective, certain key scent groups should be distinguishable to everyone. !

Not true! We have a large number of olfactory receptors (I don't remember the exact number) and variations w/each person's senses can make a flower (or any other item) smell one way to one person and that same flower can smell very different to the next person.

I read an article a long time about a test and even the scientists involved in the testing were shocked at the percentage of variation. Wish I could remember all the figures...but I can't. Suffice it to say, fragrance IS a highly personal and individual sense.

[astrid]

Originally Posted by katrina

Not true! We have a large number of olfactory receptors (I don't remember the exact number) and variations w/each person's senses can make a flower (or any other item) smell one way to one person and that same flower can smell very different to the next person.

I read an article a long time about a test and even the scientists involved in the testing were shocked at the percentage of variation. Wish I could remember all the figures...but I can't. Suffice it to say, fragrance IS a highly personal and individual sense.

But vanilla scent is vanilla scent.
Menthol gives menthol scent.

We can determine basic smells and colors universally if we know them. No, maybe we can't perfectly describe every orchid, but if we list a few key features of the smell, others can know a better idea.

Sweet is sweet and spicy is spicy. I disagree that it is so different that humans could not understand basic key smells and use them as reference to other smells.

If you link the study you're talking about, I will happily read it.

I really just think that humans are not accustomed to describing smells, so we are not very good at it. If you look back at old old literature, you will find that humans lacked colors to call things, so the ocean was black, blood was black, wine was black and so on. The sky was "white" and only recently have we come up with the common knowledge and agreement on colors. Though your red may be completely different to mine, we would both identify a red beach ball as red, even if I love red and you hate it, and I cannot fathom scents being any different.

[katrina]

It's been too long since I read what I did and I don't have the time to try and find it at this point but the gist of it was that not everyone smells fragrance the same. Where you might detect vanilla...another person won't pick up on that tone because some other scent will dominate for them. Fragrance of flowers is far more complex than smelling a bottle of vanilla or a jar of pepper. And most people will get a "blend" of fragrances and not all tones will be in equal proportions for each person...again adding to the complexity and difficulty in describing what one is smelling.

I agree that not everyone is going to be expert in describing fragrance of flowers but I think that has more to do w/the absolute complexity w/in the fragrance more than it has anything to do w/the individuals' ability to put it into words.

NYCOrchidman pointed out the Sharry Baby example...like him, I don't smell chocolate. Never have...on any of the plants that I have ever smelled. I get vanilla and sweet...nothing chocolate. So, when I hear someone say it smells like chocolate (and many people do!) I always find it odd so I know I'm smelling things differently than many other people. Of course, I could be one of those perfume sniffers because of the extreme sensitivity of my olfactory senses. My husband calls me a bloodhound. LOL!

Anyway...as great as it would be to be able to neatly package and label the fragrance of orchids...I just don't believe it's that simple. And, apparently, there is some science (out there somewhere!) that backs up my belief.

[Optimist]

Somewhat off topic on the subject of the scent of chocolate and "Shary Baby."

Many years ago, I was at a Godivas in Portland Oregon, when my sister told me to smell an orange/ chocolate ball. I became so nausious I nearly fainted. They brought me to a hospital, where they said I had about 45 minutes to live without emergency surgery. I had a horrible case of peratenitus and was in the hospital for 10 days.

I cannot take the scent of chocolate at all. I become physically Ill.At a grocery store a few days ago, I finally got to smell Shary Baby. Im glad that I did not buy one sight unseen because it made me feel sick to my stomach.

Its all psycological, of course.

[NYCorchidman]

Oh, wow~
I'm glad you're alive!

Back to the topic, the best thing regarding scented orchids, if you are particular about fragrance or sensitive to smells, then it's best to buy an orchid in bloom after smelling it in person.
No other way.

Even Brassavola nodosa can be without any scent at all, although I believe it is rather uncommon.

[astrid]

Originally Posted by katrina

NYCOrchidman pointed out the Sharry Baby example...like him, I don't smell chocolate. Never have...on any of the plants that I have ever smelled. I get vanilla and sweet...nothing chocolate. So, when I hear someone say it smells like chocolate (and many people do!) I always find it odd so I know I'm smelling things differently than many other people. Of course, I could be one of those perfume sniffers because of the extreme sensitivity of my olfactory senses. My husband calls me a bloodhound. LOL!

Anyway...as great as it would be to be able to neatly package and label the fragrance of orchids...I just don't believe it's that simple. And, apparently, there is some science (out there somewhere!) that backs up my belief.

I think that people describe the Sharry Baby as chocoate because that is the expectation! With language and songs, we mishear lyrics because often our brains expect something else to be said. Even if I hear Taylor Swift say, "All the lonely starbucks lovers," it's still pretty darn close to "got a long list of ex lovers" (in sound) and it doesn't change the true content.

For what it's worth, vanilla has a single scent component usually - vanillin or ethylvanillin. (I could be mistaken, but I have worked with both in the lab and I know them immediately when I smell them).
Chocolate, on the other hand, has a cocktail of 25 chemical components that must hit us in the right combination for us to perceive chocolate smell.

However, if the brain perceives something that leaves it confused or uncertain, it quickly invents a story to fit the given information so we don't sit bedazzled every time something new or odd comes along. So people likely detect "chocolate" from sharry baby (1) because they are told that it is the chocolate orchid and (2) because their brains don't know what to make of it, so they fill the blank with something reasonable. Like I did with Taylor Swift.

I firmly believe that if we were all trained on basic scents, we would be able to know those scents well and detect the subtleties of smells. Most people, at least. Each language had to develop color vocabulary, and color can be as complex and subjective as smells. Some languages in the modern day don't distinguish blue and green, so speakers have a hard time identifying the two. It doesn't mean something isn't "blue" or "green" - only that their brains aren't accustomed to distinguishing one from the other.

Maybe we have genetic differences that allow some people to smell one chemical compound while others don't – for example, only part of the population can smell deadly cyanide gas, but the rest who smell it say it has bitter almond smell. Indeed, almonds contain cyanide, so it makes sense for us to associate cyanide with almond smells. Not that we really should go around sniffing cyanide gas, mind you...

I guess we're just stuck disagreeing here, but I really think my hypothesis holds some weight!
Thanks for engaging me in a nice little friendly debate.

---------- Post added at 11:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Optimist

Somewhat off topic on the subject of the scent of chocolate and "Shary Baby."

Many years ago, I was at a Godivas in Portland Oregon, when my sister told me to smell an orange/ chocolate ball. I became so nausious I nearly fainted. They brought me to a hospital, where they said I had about 45 minutes to live without emergency surgery. I had a horrible case of peratenitus and was in the hospital for 10 days.

I cannot take the scent of chocolate at all. I become physically Ill.At a grocery store a few days ago, I finally got to smell Shary Baby. Im glad that I did not buy one sight unseen because it made me feel sick to my stomach.

Its all psycological, of course.

Yeah, my friend had cancer, and I don't think it happens to her anymore (it's been 10 years), but she would always drive up to OHSU for chemo. After she was in remission, she got horrible associative nausea just driving up here to Portland.

And peritonitis? Yikes! I am glad you survived!! My friend got peritonitis when her appendix burst and she was in the hospital for over a month. So you now associate chocolatey sweet scents with that illness? No fun.

I can't buy fragrant orchids sight unseen either, because I would get headaches like I said in my OP.

[katrina]

Originally Posted by astrid

but I really think my hypothesis holds some weight!
Thanks for engaging me in a nice little friendly debate.

Perhaps in time and w/more testing we'll have more answers. Regardless of the reason(s) for the limitations...I find it all very interesting.

When I was in school, if there had been a fragrance 101...I would've been the first to be registered. Well, provided I didn't have to do any armpit sniffing or anything. XD [I saw a show one time where people were paid to sniff arm pits and feet. EWWWWW]

[Brooke]

I would love to hear the story on the new avatar picture.

Brooke

[My Green Pets]

Originally Posted by Brooke

I would love to hear the story on the new avatar picture.

I must say I find it somewhat disturbing. Perhaps that was the intent?