What to do Den delicatum and Red emperor....

[coli0157]

I won two dendrobiums at our orchid society raffel this week. The only problem is that I always kill these plants so I just dont even try anymore. I have no idea what I am doing wrong but leaves always yellow and just fall off. I got Dendrobium delicatum and Den Red emperor 'Prince'. They are obviusly two very different types, they look very different. I have done some reading online but I turn to the experts here for some extra help. I love the look of Dendrobiums and really hope that I can turn a new leaf with these guys. Thanks for any suggestions.
Jeremy

[pheli]

They belong to two different types.
The second one, Den. Red emperor 'Prince', is a nobile-type dendrobium and hence you could follow the culture tips for nobile dendrobiums.
Since Den. Red emperor is deciduous, in north hemisphere, they should finish their growing and are ready to have a winter rest. Thus, keep them drier and the leaves would drop naturally. If you water them excessively, their root system would rot, which also results in falling leaves, but is a damage to them.
I have never had Den. delicatum before. Hope someone else could give you some ideas.

[cb977]

Dendrobium delicatum
(Dendrobium kingianum x Dendrobium speciosum)

I couldn't find any specific info on Den delicatum but here's what I found on the parents:

kingianum likes bright Phalaenopsis light or brighter. Day temps 75 F but can take it much warmer and night temps 57-59 F. Let dry between waterings but not to stay dry for long periods of time. Reduce water from mid-autumn to spring when new growths arrive. If stems shrivel, give a little more water.

speciosum info says very bright light is needed. The other info listed above is basically the same for this one.

If it were mine, I'd give it something like Catt light and follow the watering suggestions above.


Den Red Emperor:
Grow this hybrid in bright indirect light conditions.
Grow this hybrid in cool to intermediate conditions, or 58°F (14°C) to 75°F (24°C) at night. It may be tolerant of cold (50°F to 55°F or 10°C to 13°C) and hot (75°F to 85°F or 24°C to 29°C) night temperatures.
Keep moist in the Spring-Summer
Reduce water/feeding during the cooler months
The pot should be small for plant size

Anytime the water is reduced, it follows that fertilizers are reduced too.


I don't have these two Dens but I do have a lot of ohters. For me, high light seems to be what makes them happy.

Good luck with your new babies

[smweaver]

Jeremy, Dendrobium delicatum is a fairly easy and hardy plant to grow. At this time of year it should be relatively dormant, which means that it will appreciate a fairly dry winter rest (water it maybe once every month between now and February), lots of light (don't be afraid to give it full sun at this time of year--in fact, the more sun it gets right now, the more likely it will be to flower in the late winter/early spring), and cool to intermediate temperatures (it likes cool conditions, especially at night, while resting; anywhere between 45 and 55 degrees at night, if you can provide it, will be to the plant's liking). If the plant's an adult, flower spikes should appear from both between and just beneath the uppermost leaves on the pseudobulbs in late winter. To avoid getting keikis (baby plants) instead of flowers at this stage (either can develop from the emerging "nubs" that start to swell at the top of the pseudobulbs), don't be tempted to water the plant very much until actual spikes have started to elongate (you'll be able to tell them from keikis because they will have tiny buds on them and will be leafless; keikis will start to form small leaves, and tiny root tips will begin to emerge from the base of the keiki). In the summer you can place your plant outside. An Eastern exposure, or a semi-shaded Southern exposure, should suffice to keep it happy. Mainly the "trick" with keeping delicatum growing and flowering well is respecting its winter rest period. Good luck with your plant.

Steve

[coli0157]

Thanks for the info everyone. I think my problem is probably that I water too much. I grow Masdevallia and Draculas so I like to water my plants. The cool part will be fine as well as the light. It just seems strange to me to have a bone dry plant that hasnt been watered in a month. I will resist my temptations...

[Undergrounder]

Hey coli i have two big specimen Den x delicatum in the back yard and a few seedlings, they're about as hardy as you can get. They're the natural cross of kingianum and speciosum, both of which like lots of light and to have their roots dry out totally between waterings. If you introduce them slowly to full sun and then keep them there, then they will take full sun for their lifetime. We've just had 100+degs and full sun last week and they handled it fine. If they're not used to it though, they will definitely burn.

In nature they grow on cliff escarpments and on sandstone boulders so they will basically grow on air. I have a speciosum that literally grows on its own rootball. Ultra-coarse, quick draining media is they key.

sm you've obviously got your delicatum care down pat, thanks i'll put some of that into practice on my plants. They have a definite growth period and a slow period, but in the wild they get pretty much rain all year in equal amounts. They start growing from the Hunter Valley and North so they're definitely temperate plants and don't get the seasonal fluctuations of the tropics.

Like all natives, they do flower well when they're stressed, so as sm said, holding the water during winter will induce more flowering. They survive fine because they store water in their canes.

The only thing i don't like about them is their canes get overly long and bare. Try to tie them together as the plant gets big so they don't topple over and look messy.

[smweaver]

Jeremy, whatever you do, don't treat delicatum like your Masdevallias and Draculas. Dendrobiums in general, and the Australian members of the tribe in particular, are not what you would call delicate plants. I have three Australian dendrobiums: a delicatum and two varieties of speciosum. I think that all of them must have originated on another planet and somehow were dropped off on earth long ago by alien visitors. They can take a whole lot more sun than just about any other orchid (the ONLY New World species I have that can handle the same amount of sunlight as the Australians is Rhyncholaelia digbyana), even the vaunted high-light loving members of the Vanda family. So please don't pamper your delicatum. One of the nicest things about Australian dendrobiums is that they seem to thrive on neglect and abuse (a horticultural sadist's dream come true). Once youre delicatum flowers, I think you'll be very pleased with what you get. When they're happy, they flower abundantly, with multiple spikes that are loaded with flowers on each of the larger canes (and they even bloom from older, previously-bloomed canes too, which is something that's not that common in the orchid family), and the blooms smell wonderful. And if you do get a couple of keikis along with the spikes, just think of it as the plant's way of encouraging you to share your growing hobby with others. Once the keikis have formed a few leaves and roots, you can simply twist them free from the "mother" plant, pot them up and treat them like the adults (if you're a fan of the old Star Trek series from the sixties, think of them like the tribbles, always multiplying whenever they're treated too well).

Underground, I envy you for living in a country that has many of the orchids that I love. It would be wonderful to have a yard filled with Dendrobium speciosums and Cymbidium canaliculatums. Do you have any of the Australian cymbidium species?

Steve

[Undergrounder]

sm: I'm lucky i don't get frosts where i live so i can have orchids outside, but it's funny i'm jealous of people that live in the tropics that can grow things like phalaenopsis off a tree I love sub-tropica plants.

I don't have canaliculatum, its a beautiful Cym though! Cym suave grows locally, but if i bought one for the backyard they need rotted heartwood and a pot that can handle their excessively long roots. I hear they take over old trees and send their roots for metres down the centre of the trunks.

The other native i like is the Sarcochilus falcatus. They're stunning little sarcs, but they like mounts (more watering!) and somewhat humidity, which i can't really provide. I do have a Dockrillia linguiformis on a bit of old board and a Dendrobium graciliculis growing out of a staghorn. There's a ... Dendrobium aemula on a casuarina but my favourite is the Dendrobium falcorostrum, but its in a pot because it likes a little more humidity.

I have my brother to thank for introducing me to native orchids, he planted these in the rock escarpment about 10 years ago. Since then they were literally ignored and took a battering from scale and dendrobium beatles, but they survived fine. They're in full sun. They flower every year, but in general flower better every other year. Over the last year i've watered them and given them a little food and planted some more and they've rewarded me with lots of new growths!

These are old pics. Mainly specs, with delicatum hybrids. There's also a shelf lower down with a mixture of specs and kingianums:

[smweaver]

Very nice set-up you've got--and life would be so much easier if I could simply mount mine on some rocks in the backyard and periodically aim a gardenhose at them. I have a canaliculatum hybrid and a couple of madidum hybrids, but neither of the pure species. The madidum hybrids are huge plants and very robust growers; nothing seems to set them back--and they thrive in our hot and humid summers (unlike standard cymbidiums, which have always gone into a slow decline for me). I'd like to try madidum itself, but I hear that it will eventually turn into a monster as far as its size goes. I've also read what you said about suave having a liking for dead tree stumps and making extensive root systems. Probably a good idea to leave that species off of my wish list for the time being. :-) I've never tried sarcochilus. Might have to give it a shot. And I'd love to try Den. falcorostrum one day. But I hear that it doesn't adjust well to warm temperatures, and since our summers where I live are very warm (regularly climbing to the 33 - 34 C range, accompanied by 85% humidity), I'd probably have as much luck with that species as I once had when I was stupid enough to attempt to grow Odontoglossum crispum here (a very humbling experience, to put it mildly). Good luck with your plants--and post a picture of two of your Stanhopea with the other thread you started whenever you get a chance.

Steve

[Undergrounder]

Hey sm i didn't realise most Cyms didn't like humidity! They're just sold here as being impossible to kill but i guess that's because its pretty temperate. I understand why you get plants with canaliculatum and madidum parentage then! I hear they do get big and clumpy though... There's a great photo in my book of one growing clear on the side of a tree, its got about 80 flowers and is just using its roots to cling on for dear life.

Your warning about the falcorostrum is timely. My brother lost his too. I've kept it happy for almost a year now since i got it but we're just about to go into summer and we usually get a month at least of 30+ days and a week's worth touching 40. In the wild they grow at the top of Beech trees in the misty forests of a temperate rain forest. I know a guy in Sydney growing a dozen good plants under shadecloth so i guess they must be able to handle it. I'll take special care.

I found the photo of the lower shelf. I planted them more recently. I plan on filling the entire cliff-face with natives over the years... Our backyard is literally 2m wide with that rock going all the way along so its a real statement. I might look into canaliculatum for some of the higher cracks. Can it take full sun? probably not.

Do you grow any plants outside?

... sorry for hyjacking the thread cb. Answer: tie your delicatum to the driveway and run over it periodically. It will do fine.