Growing Dens in the South

[orchidman77]

Hey Guys,

I live in Louisiana and want to grow some dendrobiums. Mainly, I want Den. Yellow Song 'Canary' right now, and I'll slowly build a collection after that.

It's a nobile hybrid, but that's about all i know. I have a few questions.

Mainly, will I be able to grow it here indoors???

Will it lose its leaves in the winter?

What's this temperature difference between the day and night thing? Is it that important (i.e., If i can grow catts, can I grow dens?)

Thanks--

David

[smweaver]

David, if it's a nobile hybrid you may want to grow it outdoors, especially during the winter (if you can keep it relatively dry). I don't know how low your temperatures get in your area of Louisiana, but D. nobile and its hybrids appreciate cool winter temperatures (especially at night). I got a couple of plants of the species D. nobile from RF Orchids, and another, much smaller, plant of the same species from Santa Barbara Orchid Estate. Even though RF's plants are huge in comparison to the one from SBOE, there are no remains of old flower spikes on them; the smaller plant from California (where the night temperatures during the winter are probably much lower than they are in South Florida), on the other hand, has lots of old flower spikes along the canes. So while the nobile hybrids will probably grow quite well for you in Louisiana, your challenge might be getting them to bloom if you can't provide cool (and relatively dry) winters. But hopefully someone on this site who's more knowledgeable than I am with the nobiles--and, if you're lucky, lives in a warm climate like yours--will be able to give you more helpful advice. Good luck with your plant.

Steve

[orchidman77]

Steve, thank you so much for your help! I went searching online and found a good website (Yamamoto Orchids in Hawaii) that had TONS of good info about nobile dens. According to them, you need about 25 nights of temps in the low fifties, if memory serves, to differentiate flower buds from keiki growths. That's pretty much temperatures right now where I live. I think that if I grow outdoors to get the needed cool nighttime temps and then bring in, i'll get blooms.

I'm planning to get a few dens but I don't want to get too many; do you have any suggestions for which ones (nobile or phal types) for me to get?

Thanks--

David

[smweaver]

David, both types (nobile and phalaenopsis varieties) of dendrobiums are popular. The phal types do not want (or need) the cool and dry winter treatment that the nobiles prefer. I'm not terribly fond of hybrids (prefer species orchids for the most part), but I know that Hausermann's (Welcome to Orchids By Hausermann On-Line Orchid catalog.) frequently has lots of nobile hybrids listed on their website. Norman's Orchids (orchids.com passion for orchids) also carries dendrobium hybrids (they even have a nobile hybrid that's listed as warm-growing, although I can't vouch for the truthfulness of that statement since I don't have the plant that this claim is made for).

Oh, and I forgot to answer one of your questions in my previous response. The nobiles will, in fact, drop many (but probably not all) of their leaves during their rest period, especially on the older canes. Many of the leaves on my plants are turning yellow, which is probably normal since they've been going out on the front porch for the last two months and getting subjected to temperatures in the mid 30s to mid 40s. As long as they're dry, the nobiles are highly tolerant of cool (even cold) night temperatures. So don't panic if you leave yours out one night and Louisiana gets a freak cold snap (I think you guys get those in the South--although your idea of cold might be a bit different than mine :-). And yes, Yamamoto's is famous for promoting (actually, pioneering) the trend in nobile hybrids. In fact, the nobile hybrids are frequently referred to as Yamamoto dendrobiums.

Steve

[orchidman77]

Steve, I'm actually looking at getting this den from Hausermann's. I just placed my first order from there (Vini paph and a yellow phal) and I am expecting great things!!! I have heard nothing but good about them, so I figured I'd give them a try....

Thanks for you insights. I do prefer species for some orchids (like stans!) But for catts and paphs, the hybrids are really amazing.

Yeah we do get cold freak spells down here lol!!!! However i don't think that they are anywhere near deadly for dens (lowest temp last year I think was 29 F )

Still one question: I have read several places that a temperature differentiation between night and day is necessary for successful den culture. Is this normal outside?? I think it is but then again I'm not sure.....

David

[smweaver]

David, I think that the temperature differential you mentioned is normal, and especially easy to achieve outside. During our summers, days are in the high 80s to low 90s, with nights in the mid 60s. With central heating, winter's actually the time of the year when it's more challenging for me to get the day/night differential since all of the plants spend the winter indoors.

I do find many hybrids to be beautiful. But with limited space, I just figure it's easier for me to stick with the more limited number of species (a couple of dozen or so cattleya species, for example, versus tens of thousands of their hybrids). Plus, I think it's kind of cool to have something that's been perfectly happy evolving in a rain forest for the last five million years without feeling the need to interbreed too often with its neighbors. Good luck with your plants. Hybrids or species, I'm sure you'll be pleased with what you get from Hausermann's. They've been around forever, and I've usually been very happy with what I've gotten from them in the past.

Steve

[orchidman77]

Steve, thank you for putting all of my fears to rest! I do not plan to have a huge collection; i want my plants to be varied and beautiful. However, I do love both the hybrids and species, so I'll probably end up with a mixed collection.

I'm going to go for the dendrobium and see what I can do. Maybe in the future I'll have a few more dens, but I think this one will suffice for now.

Thanks once again!!!

David

[shadytrake]

Steve,

Thanks for posting all of this great information. I was worried about putting mine outside and now I'm not.

I'm going to empty the s/h reservoir today and put them out to enjoy the filtered sun today and monitor the temps so they get their winter rest.

I was actually gauging winter rest by the winter solstice (Dec 21) and start it then because here in Memphis, we usually get 2 really cold months (Jan-Feb) and then spring starts with a bang (of course with the occasional cold snap). I was afraid that if I started now, then I would be getting lots of tender new growth in January right when we get the crappy weather.

If I put them out to rest now, can they rest for longer than 1 month? If I rest them now, then bring them into the GH, they will start getting 62 nights and 68ish days when I crank on the heat for the other chids.

What do you think?

[smweaver]

I think they will probably rest for as long as you give them cool nights and greatly reduce the amount of water you give to them. As far as the temps in your greenhouse go, I'm not sure how the nobiles will react to nights of 62 degrees. I think that's a little high for D. nobile in the winter, but again, I'm not an expert. According to the Bakers' website (Orchid Culture -- Charles and Margaret Baker), the average night temperature for D. nobile's habitat is around 50 degrees. But that's for the species itself, so perhaps the hybrids would be a bit more adaptable to higher night temperatures, depending on what's in their genetic makeup. I'll certainly be interested to find out how your plants perform once you bring them back in your greenhouse, so please post a periodic update.

[Donald]

Excellent thread.