Dendrobium problems - Orchid Board

ksbikecommuter · #1 07-12-2009, 07:04 PM

Hello
I have a Dendrobium that was my fathers, when he went into a rest home last fall I brought it home. I had it replanted and found out it had no roots. We hoped it would grow roots after replanting. This spring it put out about ten keikis and they were growing well with many short roots and two to four leaves each. Now the leaves are turning brown, the roots are still white with green tips but most are less than a quarter inch long. What is happening and what should I do? I will appreciate any advice.

Thank You
Ian

Zoi2 · #2 07-12-2009, 07:48 PM

Hello and welcome to the Orchid Board!
If you can post pictures of your den, it will be easier to answer your questions.
Joann

Blueszz · #3 07-12-2009, 07:55 PM

Hello Ian,
if you have some good pictures from the plant, maybe from the flowers in the past, we might be able to help you. Without knowing what kind of Dendrobium it is, it's impossible to give you a good advise.
Please, give is also the current culture conditions, like temperature (day/night), humidty and light level (outdoors in shade, in the windowsill East faced etc)
Other information we might need is: what medium is it in, how do you water it, do you mist it etc. Give us as much information as you can provide us.

Nicole

catwalker808 · #4 07-13-2009, 04:16 AM

If your dendrobium had no roots and sprouted 10 keikis this spring, I would guess that you have either a nobile (soft cane) dendrobium which puts out flowers in small clusters directly out of the joints of the canes or a phalaenopsis type dendrobium, which sends out long sprays of flowers near the tops of the canes. You may be able to see the stubs of the old bloom spikes in either place.

My guess is that the plant is a nobile, with the keikis sprouting from the joints of the cane, since you have so many keikis. In order for a den phal type to have so many keikis, it would need to have many mature canes, since the keikis would be only near the terminals of the canes. If it is a nobile den, the keikis are probably latent flower spikes which converted to keikis as a survival mechanism

Potting the old plant in a big pot in a moist medium is not a good idea for a plant with no roots. The old roots probably died and rotted off, or rotted and died. A den without roots needs to heal its base before it can put out new roots (in conjunction with a new basal growth). The keikis are an attempt by the parent plant to survive. Basically the parent plant cannot provide water to itself and its keikis through the base, because it has no roots. The keikis survive by receiving aerial moisture directly on their roots and leaves from rain or from you. I would guess that the keikis are not receiving enough direct moisture and are dehydrating. The keikis are almost like mounted plants at this point. Instead, it is better to place the base in a large pot, but with only a layer of bark to retain some moisture.

To give you an idea how much this type of keiki depends on aerial (direct) moisture, growers sometimes sever a cane, lay it down on a plant bench and keikis emerge ... to be watered like regular plants, except more frequently. Or, to propagate nobiles, growers sever individual sections of the canes, dry to heal the cuts, then plant the cuts like slips, which then sprout individual keikis (but that's another story)

If your plant is a den phal, I still recommend the treatment at the end of 2 paragraphs above.

This seems like a lot of trouble, but I assume that the plant has real sentimental value to you. Good luck

ksbikecommuter · #5 07-13-2009, 09:42 PM

Hello catwalker808

Thank you so much for the information, this is exactly what I needed to bridge the gap between how to raise a healthy plant and how to care for an ailing plant. You are right that this plant has sentimental value to me as it is one of three remaining plants that dad had left when he moved in with mom in a facility. He is in the beginning stages of Alzheimer's and cannot remember how to care for the plants. I grew up surrounded by orchids but only learned how to care for healthy ones. And as a kid I wasn't that interested, now that I need to ask him questions he cannot remember, it only distresses him when I ask so I don't even try anymore. I will immediately start a program of misting down the plant and construct a simple grow case to contain the over spray and humidity. I will let you know how it goes. I will also take the plant out of the pot. Will answer other question later when I have more time.

Again thank you very much.

Ian

catwalker808 · #6 07-13-2009, 11:42 PM

I made some educated guesses as to what kind of den it was. If you post a photo of the plant or canes as the others above suggest, they are all waiting eagerly to identify what kind of den it is and, therefore, more specifically how to care for it.

ksbikecommuter · #7 07-15-2009, 10:23 PM

Hello

First I want to apologies for taking so long to get back to you all with the information you requested.
As a reminder, after dad went into an assisted facility with mom I gathered up his plants to care for them. The beginning stages of Alzheimer's is not nice, dad can no longer remember how to care for plants that he has been studding and growing for 50 years. This particular plant was sitting in an inch of water and I could tell it was in distress. Now when I grew up I learned to care for healthy orchids but not what to do with sick ones. I asked a local grower that dad knows what to do with this plant and he took it out of the pot and found the roots all rotted. He repotted it in a new 6 inch pot with a commercial medium bark mixture and recommended that I not water it for about two weeks, then resume normal watering. This was in November. This spring it started to produce Keiki's and recently the leaves began tuning brown and falling off. Then the leaves on the Keiki's also began turning brown. So now here is the rest of the information.

The plant Den. Frosty Dawn H and R Nurseries

I have searched to find out what group this is and not found that information. Plant has black hairs on canes. White flours with orange lip. Is it deciduous or evergreen, Nobile group or Formosum group?

Potted in 6 inch plastic pot with medium fine commercial mix

38 watt CFL 8 inches above pot, no shade so it shines up on taller leaves.

13 canes

It had lots of flowers on it in the past.

8 to 10 Keiki's

Maybe a new cane starting.

Most leaves have turned brown and fallen of. Leaves did not turn brown during the winter.

I use the skewer method to check for water needs, when it is no longer cool to my cheek I water.
During the winter this was probably a two to three week interval. Now approximately every week to ten days.

Plant in living room, winter temps 60 to 65, summer temps 75 to 85.

On Monday I moved it to the kitchen sink so I could mist it down repeatedly and rigged a brighter light. I believe it needs a different growing medium, would like to try a mount so I can watch after the roots. Or a pot with large bark. What are your suggestions.

Thank You

Ian

catwalker808 · #8 07-16-2009, 06:10 AM

OK. I guessed the wrong type of den, but the treatment would be the same. Your plant is a formosum type den. Yes, indeed, sitting in 1" of water did rot the roots. This would happen to any kind of dens. What I described above was nobile dens. I did not even mention blooming needs, because it's the wrong season, and your real priority was saving the plant. You could pretty much just insert "formosum type den" wherever I said "nobile type den" because their rooting, their keiki habit and propagation by cuttings are very similar.

As I described above, 2 things happened to your plant. First, the rotted roots caused distress. Your gardener friend's suggested treatment worked to a point, because it initially allowed your plant to heal and begin growing. Mostly, during the winter, your plant was less active and required much less water to survive. Then when the temps got warmer and the plant became more active, the week to 10 days watering may not have been enough ... especially if you were relying on your "cheek test."

The potting mix may have been watered enough, but with very few live roots in the pot, the keikis themselves were not getting much moisture. With few live roots on the base of the canes the moisture was probably not getting to the keikis.

As I mentioned above, a pot with very little bark or a few large pieces would be a good bet. Your idea about mounting would also work. However, you would need to change your watering schedule. Drench the roots and keikis and water often since the mount will dry out quickly. But you certainly will not have waterlogged roots.

With 13 canes, your father sure had a large plant. And it must have been an impressive sight, with a very nice morning fragrance, since it blooms during the spring for a 3 month period.

Good luck.

iceicebaby · #9 07-16-2009, 12:57 PM

Hi this post is of great information for me.
I am dealing with quite a few sick Dendrobiums.
Yes rootless and sick enough to be in the ICU.
Some have produced some new shoots from the base.
What I understand is that I need to mist them often.
I have kept them on a humidity tray, is it ok?
Anything else to be done?

Dev

quiltergal · #10 07-16-2009, 05:01 PM

Frosty Dawn is from the Formosea group. It likes to be warm, with bright light, and regular feeding and water during growth cycles which should be now. I can't imagine mounting a 13 cane Frosty. Mine is huge and it only has 8. I have mine in coco husk chunks mixed with perlite and charcoal. When I first bought mine it freaked out and dropped almost all of it's leaves when I brought it home. Once it got acclimated it stopped dropping leaves and resumed normal growth. If you can get it to start a new cane I think you will be well on your way to having it recover. Once it re-establishes itself you can repot again and remove some of the old leafless canes. It's good to leave some on for backup. The plant will draw nutrients from the old canes if it needs to. Stop fertilizing the end of August and cut back on the water a little as you head into fall. That should trigger blooming. You don't need to chill these like you would a nobile. Good luck!