Keep the keikis and ditch the canes?

[Skippersmom]

Good afternoon! I am an amateur and in Nebraska. 2 Dendrobiums. One is a nobile, the other I have lost the tag for but am assuming nobile. Both purchased at a local orchid show 2 years ago.

1) the Yasuko Sugiyama one looked nearly dead in April. Yellow wrinkled canes and some keikis starting. Put it ouside with the rest and bade it 'good luck'. So now it's in for the winter. Main canes are still looking bad.

Should I remove the keikis and just pitch the rest?

2) the mystery Dendrobium never looked bad but got stuck outside for the summer. Now is has a couple good canes and some canes with keiki's that I want to pull off and start. Should I keep the canes from which I've removed the keikis?

3)Can the keikis be grouped 2 or 3 in a pot to start them?
Thank you in advance for your thoughts.

[estación seca]

They look very healthy. Congratulations!

I would wait for spring to separate them. Lots of keikii production can be caused by too much nitrogen fertilizer, too late in the year. If you fertilize, stop in early August.

To flower in springtime keep it as brightly lit now as you can, and keep watering enough to keep the leaves healthy. Most importantly, let it get very cool at night, but not freezing, for 4-6 weeks. They can be triggered to flower any time of the year by manipulating temperatures.

[Skippersmom]

Thank you for your answer to my question. I will leave them alone for now.

When they are outside in the summer - early May through mid-October - I typically alternate 'Mir-Acid' with 'Bloom-Booster' with a specific 'orchid fertilizer' [which I notice from brand to brand have quite different nitrogen content]. Will give more attention to the nitrogen.

So I have seen that temperature variations are recommended for many orchid varieties. A temperature drop to 65 degrees - in my house in the winter - is not my 'human happy place'. The garage gets too cold too. If you are aware of any clever ways that people in coldclimates can get a decent temperature variation in the house, I would be quite interested in hearing about them.

Again, thank you!

[estación seca]

Den nobiles are challenging to flower in freezing winter climates. They really need to get down to 50-55 F / 10-12C in winter to flower well.

When I lived in St Louis I grew cacti that flowered much better with this kind of winter temperature. I put them in a room with heat vents closed so temperatures would be much cooler than the rest of the house. I kept the heavy drapes closed and used fluorescent lights for supplemental lighting. I ran the lights at night - partly to keep the room above freezing at night; partly so the lights would be on when I was home from work. In that era flourescent lights were standard for growing plants; they have been superseded by LED lights, which last much longer and use much less eleftricity.

[Roberta]

Don't write off the canes, either... these, like many Dendrobiums, often bloom on old canes, even some that are rather shriveled. I wait until they are thin and brown and crunchy before cutting because they can really surprise you.

If you do decide to separate the keikis in the spring (don't do it before), that's fine, but also you may be surprised with some new basal growth - which will also bring new roots. These are survivors!

[Orchidtinkerer]

nothing wrong with your old canes, even if they lose all their leaves they are still doing fine.

They will produce new growths. So yes you can cut the keikis and have several plants that will be mature in 3 years time or you can leave them and have one very rambling plant.

Without a temp drop into the low 60s they will probably never bloom however

[Roberta]

A note on the keikis... If you do decide to remove them next spring and pot them up separately, there are a couple of ways to do it. I find that if they're really mature, it is easy to just twist them off rather than trying to cut. Another option is to cut the old cane just below the keiki, and bring that along - which might help to nourish the keiki while it is getting going. So for now, basically ignore the plant, and look at it in a few months... if it is going to bloom in the spring, you will see buds forming and then for sure you're want to leave it alone until it's done. If no action by around late March, you can proceed.

---------- Post added at 08:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:41 AM ----------

Another note... I'm not sure that anybody really knows what the trigger truly is for these plants to flower... relative dryness? Cool winter nights? Maybe... But it also depends on what is in the hybrid, even the species Den. nobile comes from a range of habitats. I have one that just bloomed, that was mislabeled. (I expected yellow, got pink and white and dark purple) The species that it was supposed to be is a warm grower, so I put it in the greenhouse. (It was a small, young plant when I got it.) When it did bloom - having been in the greenhouse for about 4 years - it looked a lot like a Den. nobile - which for me normally blooms in spring, not October. Obviously wasn't what the label said. I sent an email to the vendor who had donated the plant, and she verified the ID as Den. nobile based on my pictures. So the conditions that it had been receiving were pretty much opposite of what a Den nobile should get (warm, humid, daily watering, somewhat regular fertilizer). And it bloomed anyway, having grown to be a substantial, husky plant. So never say never...

[Fairorchids]

cultural notes:

Once spring blooming & growth stars, you water & fertilize regularly. I do not let Den. nobile types go completely dry at that time of the year.

Sept. 15th: NO more fertilizer. At all.
Oct. 15th: Reduce watering by 90%. I give them a splash once a month or so.

They can stay outside till night time temps drop below 38F or so (but protect against fall rains). Once you are forced to bring them inside:

• They need as bright light as possible.
• Daytime temps do not matter much, but they prefer cool nights (ideally in low 50's).

Once buds form, you start to increase watering. When buds are gettnig close to opening, you go to full watering schedule, and you can start fertilizing again.

If you fertilize after Sept 15, you get keikis instead of buds.
If you water too much after mid Oct, you inhibit buds.

[Skippersmom]

Thankyou everyone. My poor orchids get generic care...heh heh,...They are moved outdoors in the spring and back in about mid-October. Real shade - under trees - OR under whatever I concoct to shade an area. [contact me if you wish instruction on a 'how to' for epic fails!] They get 'hit' by water when the sprinklers go off, (about every other day) --- assuming my spouse has not made a unilateral decision to shut off the system for various uniquely explained reasons. Some get slow release fertilizer, some have fertilizer 'spikes' and about every 3 weeks I mix up either 'Mir-Acid' or Schultz 'Bloom Booster' in a dispersal feeder and hose everyone off. And....that goes on until they are brought in, in October at which time I put everyone in a Wal-Mart plastic baby pool w/ probitic and soak them over night and then pull out and inspect & clean them. (Appears that I can count on more keiki's over the winter! Ooof! )

Phals, Catts and Vandas are thriving. I may need to re-home the Dends with someone around here who can cater to their needs! One thing I know about these, if I can grow them, they are 'survivors!'

Ya'll are great and very kind. Thank you.