Paphiopedilum ID help needed.

[hyun007]

Bought this as a Wild Paphiopedilum Gratrixianum.

Bloom exactly in the season for Gratrixianum but the flower looks odd.

Will be grateful if anyone of you can help with the ID.

Many thanks.

[dounoharm]

with all our modern means of propagation, collecting wild orchids should be discouraged, step one: DO NOT BUY WILD ORCHIDS!

[hyun007]

Originally Posted by dounoharm

with all our modern means of propagation, collecting wild orchids should be discouraged, step one: DO NOT BUY WILD ORCHIDS!

I am not sure about the % of paphiopedilum coming out of propagation in Thailand. Those that i find from propogation are mostly hybrid which I am not keen on at the moment. Although I did manage to find Venustum and Delantii from a seller that propagate it but he just do es not want to do some of the wild one that is commonly sold in Thailand as it is not profitable due to competition from the wild one. Another lady told me that she prefer to sells hybrid as it is more stable and easy to care for.

Also, some of the seller that sell them in the pot here has no guaranteed that those plants are not from the wild even if the leaves looks good and perfect.

Also, I have to look in my pocket of how much I can afford from a propagate plant which tend to cost much more.

Of course, propagate plant is way better in the sense of more stable and a good starter than the wild one from my experience. If I am able to find them at a reasonable price, I will definitely buy them first

[PaphMadMan]

It definitely doesn't look like a typical Paph gratrixianum. Additional photos would be helpful - staminode, leaf bases, whole plant - and some indication of size. And do you know where it supposedly came from, a specific region?

[hyun007]

The leaf base dots is so much smaller(finer), dot colour is way lighter on what you normally found on most typical paphiopedilum (U.C.) as well as gratriaxianum.

Someone who have some gratrixianum said it should be a gratrixianum after looking at the leaves and he said the flower is not fully bloom, i should wait for it to be fully bloom first.

The one circle in red is not from the same growth. The dot is bigger and dark like most typical gratrixianum and many other paphiopedilum.

[dounoharm]

so, it is a financial issue whether we harvest to extinction? I rather think not, but then, I have always been contrary....I like the grey whales too...and the wild pink cyps that are so very hard to find in the wild anymore.....as a child, my very old uncle took me to a bit of woods on his land in the mountains....and showed me the glory of the pink cyps that carpeted the forest floor....only and acre he was able to save, altho now it is probable under apartments.....our planet, out ecology belongs to us all, and without ALL our support, it will crumble....some things need to be left alone.....imo

[jkofferdahl]

I also agree about obtaining wild orchids. Often, such a plant is illegally gathered, and each one taken from the wild is one less that is left there. The US Botanical Gardens is filled with illegally gathered and shipped orchids, which they have to keep into perpetuity unless a way is found to properly return them to the wild. As people we'e cheated Nature enough. Leave wild orchids alone.

Years ago I lived in Virginia. Near Williamsburg grows an orchid called the Small Whorled Pegonia, an endangered species (at least at the time). A situation developed when a section of highway was planned to go right through where the Pegonias grow, and enough resistance was garnered to move the highway. Still, it was kept very secret where the plants actually grew because of the fear of collecting.

I don't mind having species orchids, because the plants I grow don't come from the wild. I honestly look down upon those growing plants collected illegally.

[hyun007]

Hmmm..... isn't your orchid's ancestor were formerly collected from the wild?
You guys speaks as though I buy the whole forest of Orchids.

Also not all people collect everything nowaday.
They learn from experience that if they do that, they will have nothing for next season or in the long term. Of course there will be some irresponsible people as well.

Do you know the story of Paphiopedilum Rungsuriyanum??? Majority cases start from wild collection before new species were discovered. Paphiopedilum Canhii is also another different story. How do you get this species??? Propogate but from what? From a wild orchids.

I did bought some wild orchids but that does not mean I entirely support it. When it grew big with more growths, i usually gave some of the new growths away to Orchid lovers for free as I do not believe joy in making money out of them. In the long term, I do not think I will do more harm than damage with my own way.

[jkofferdahl]

Originally Posted by hyun007

Hmmm..... isn't your orchid's ancestor were formerly collected from the wild?
You guys speaks as though I buy the whole forest of Orchids.

Also not all people collect everything nowaday.
They learn from experience that if they do that, they will have nothing for next season or in the long term. Of course there will be some irresponsible people as well.

Do you know the story of Paphiopedilum Rungsuriyanum??? Majority cases start from wild collection before new species were discovered. Paphiopedilum Canhii is also another different story. How do you get this species??? Propogate but from what? From a wild orchids.

I did bought some wild orchids but that does not mean I entirely support it. When it grew big with more growths, i usually gave some of the new growths away to Orchid lovers for free as I do not believe joy in making money out of them. In the long term, I do not think I will do more harm than damage with my own way.

I apologize if you feel singled out. That wasn't my intent; rather, I'm disgusted by the trade in general. Would I own your orchid? No. I mean you no ill personally.

Of course all orchids started as wild plants, as did every other plant grown by humanity. Much of the collection was done before real efforts began to protect both plants and environment. But as an sample of poaching I'll just cite the American Bison.

At this point, though, the plants and animals we've domesticated are domesticated. It's difficult to return them to the wild, though it can be done. But with the oceans and oceans of legally obtainable species and hybrids, why is there even a need to own a wild plant?

[hyun007]

Originally Posted by jkofferdahl

I apologize if you feel singled out. That wasn't my intent; rather, I'm disgusted by the trade in general. Would I own your orchid? No. I mean you no ill personally.

Of course all orchids started as wild plants, as did every other plant grown by humanity. Much of the collection was done before real efforts began to protect both plants and environment. But as an sample of poaching I'll just cite the American Bison.

At this point, though, the plants and animals we've domesticated are domesticated. It's difficult to return them to the wild, though it can be done. But with the oceans and oceans of legally obtainable species and hybrids, why is there even a need to own a wild plant?

If one is going to own my orchids, it will be at least 3rd or 4th generations till it has multi growths. That is not much different from those you purchased from propogation especially new species where they harvest alot of wild one to propogate. Anyway, it is not feasible for you as the paperwork and so on is not worth it.

You want to know why some people go for the wild orchids? Main reason is because of the cost and standard of living. In America and Europe, the cost of a propogate orchids and a wild import is not a big different. In fact, some of the rare species that were propogate in Europe and America are cheaper than in Asia especially during clearance sale.

Do you know the minimum wage of Thailand is US$300? The neighbour country where most of the orchids came from has even lower minimum wages. How can they afford a propogate plant like you guys? That is why many people in Asia bought the wild orchids instead of the propogate one. As long as the propogate plant cost way more than a wild one, majority of the people here will buy the wild one.

In Thailand, if you want to get some of the exotic one from Indonesia, you pay a high price whether it is propogate or wild collected. I am not sure which generation from the propgate one or even geniue propogate since it cost almost as a wild one. Sometime I look at the sale price of some the propogate multi flora paphio you guys have , I was like oh my god! How I envy you guys but the problem of getting them here is a problem. I did owned a Philippine and it was a propogated one but that seller do not sell some of the paphiopedilum I want, also I do doubt her brachys type as the wild are so cheap and easily obtained here.

Not all wild buyers are bad, there are some who reintroduce the species back to where they belong or once belong. For me, I will do my part of giving away some new growths, at least somehow those who got them will not need to buy the wild collector one.