Paphiopedilum ID help needed.

[Orchid Whisperer]

Originally Posted by hyun007

For the pink orchids, how long ago when it was gone? I think in America, people are more aware about convservation now. Maybe it is possible to start a group and with permission of the authority to reintroduce those plants back. Of course you need to let the community aware of it and hence then people will take part to protect it than stealing it.

A few years ago, the last known wild specimen of one species of Cypripedium in the United Kingdom had to be placed under 24 hour a day armed guard. Britain's rarest flower: Lady Slipper orchid gets police protection | Daily Mail Online Why? Because poachers had removed every other known specimen from the wild. As soon as populations were discovered, they were 100% stolen by poachers. Making the community aware of populations of wild orchids just aids the poachers.

[Selmo]

If everyone said " what's the harm in me, one person, taking this one" all those one persons add up to a lot of people. If everyone who went to the beach picked up one shell and took it home, soon there would be no shells left at the beach. So don't think that you are the only one. Thought for the day

[orchidsarefun]

my view is that its easy for people in the 1st World to have a "holier than thou" and a do as I say, not as I do attitude..........sipping a latte and eating a gourmet burger. OK, maybe an exaggeration, but I say this after the "civilized" world has systematically plundered third world resources for centuries, and still do, in the form of "demand". I guess if the same is happening within 3rd world countries, they learnt a bad lesson.
People need to survive on a day-to-day basis and "harvesting" natural resources is a way to do so. Certain dendrobium species are threatened in Asia because of the medicinal demand. I read recently about the jungles in Amazon being deforested more than estimates, despite international preservation efforts.
Unless and until we provide alternatives, there will be no solution. Involving the local population - as game wardens and not poachers - has been a successful alternative in parts of Southern Africa as an example.
I've never heard of any project to reintroduce plant species into the "wild". Why ? Because it would be time-consuming and expensive. Far better to conserve and preserve in cultivation for those that put their money where their mouth is ?
I am sure EVERYONE agrees that "poaching" is bad but in the absence of alternatives, condemnation does nothing to prevent it. BTW - before I am also jumped on - I come from a 3rd world country and have first hand experience of this issue.

[Orchid Whisperer]

No one is jumping on you, but thanks for calling us holier-than-thou.

There are plant-conserving groups in the USA that reintroduce plants in wild places. Some focus on orchids. Probably elsewhere in the world too.

It is not OK to poach endangered plants or animals, even if you are in the developing parts of the world. It isn't harvesting, it is killing natural heritage. In the developed countries (or developed places within developing countries), the best thing we can do is not feed the demand to go back and poach more (we can do this by not buying poached orchids or useless rhinoceros horn powder). Since the OP has a computer, or at least access to one, I suspect he is not part of the subsist-from-the-wild economy, except as a part of the developed world demand.

Better to encourage sustainable economic activity in the developing places (and there are many examples where this has happened - one example among many: think fair trade coffee).

[hyun007]

Sustainable economics economic activity.

Hmmm does Palm Oil consist as one? It actually caused alot of harm. They are burning down huge area of forest every year in Indonesia and the smoke in the air were at dangerous level in some neighbouring countries. Many fauna and flora were destroyed including many orhids and the poor Orang Utan. They are also clearing trees in the mountian to grow tea now in Indonesia.

I think we should all cut down on consuming vegetable oil product(including oil palm).

[orchidsarefun]

Originally Posted by hyun007

Sustainable economics economic activity.

Hmmm does Palm Oil consist as one? It actually caused alot of harm. They are burning down huge area of forest every year in Indonesia and the smoke in the air were at dangerous level in some neighbouring countries. Many fauna and flora were destroyed including many orhids and the poor Orang Utan. They are also clearing trees in the mountian to grow tea now in Indonesia.

I think we should all cut down on consuming vegetable oil product(including oil palm).

excellent example. See this article
Which Everyday Products Contain Palm Oil? | Pages | WWF

Far more damage is done to the environment and to fauna and flora populations than the indigenous/local people could ever do with their own "harvesting" of natural resources. And I don't condone it, but lets look at the bigger picture and act accordingly.........like look for the RSPO or Green Palm label.

[hyun007]

Originally Posted by Orchid Whisperer

A few years ago, the last known wild specimen of one species of Cypripedium in the United Kingdom had to be placed under 24 hour a day armed guard. Britain's rarest flower: Lady Slipper orchid gets police protection | Daily Mail Online Why? Because poachers had removed every other known specimen from the wild. As soon as populations were discovered, they were 100% stolen by poachers. Making the community aware of populations of wild orchids just aids the poachers.

I read about this, it seem to be over collected in UK and France but it is in abundance in Austria. The reintroduction population is actually starting to do well. They are able to use the symbiotic fungus needed.

Rotchschild has been reintroduced back into Mount Kinabalu after it was hunt to near extinction but it is still critically endangered.

There will always be poachers. With the help of a big community, the chance for the plants to survice is actually higher.

[hyun007]

Updating picture of Paphiopedilum.
It is still not in full bloom

Seller said it should be a Paphiopedilum Gratrixianum because it is collected in the forest of South of Laos where only Gratrxianum are collected. I was told they come in different var as well and some without dots on dorsal sepal.

I just want to give this John/Jane Doe a proper ID. Sorry for any disappointment, anger and etc... that I might had caused due to the source it was obtained.

I do not think I will need any wild one anymore as I have contacted a few growers who will sell me their new growths from their garden.

[Orchid Whisperer]

Originally Posted by hyun007

Sustainable economics economic activity.

Hmmm does Palm Oil consist as one? It actually caused alot of harm. They are burning down huge area of forest every year in Indonesia and the smoke in the air were at dangerous level in some neighbouring countries. Many fauna and flora were destroyed including many orhids and the poor Orang Utan. They are also clearing trees in the mountian to grow tea now in Indonesia.

I think we should all cut down on consuming vegetable oil product(including oil palm).

What you describe for palm oil production would not be considered sustainable by anyone.

However, production of corn oil, canola oil, and olive oil can be more sustainable, depending on how the land and crops are managed. I am not sure if there is sustainable palm oil production; I have no knowledge of palm cultivation, or whether it can be done without the habitat and species damage you describe.