Why I Wish Paphs Could be Mericloned

[JMNYC]

Originally Posted by Ray

No, I'm about 8 hours from him, in Bucks County PA. I have family in GSO, so I have an excuse to be down there.

Ahah! Almost as good! Especially, when the transit time passes at warpspeed when we are infused with joy! So good you have relatives there!

In the unlikely event I might find the time for the privilege of going there.....he might need a winch to get me to leave.

Wonder if his son shares his passion?

[quiltergal]

Per OrchidWiz and RHS registrations Marriott Orchids has originated 163 complex Paph. hybrids. His plants have received 78 awards on 37 different plants (many having been awarded more than once). So 23% of the orchids he himself has bred have been award quality to date. Not bad. I think that percentage illustrates what NYCorchidman was trying to say about breeding being somewhat of a crap shoot.

Terry Root from The Orchid Zone has originated 426 Paph. hybrids. He has received 799 awards on 95 different plants (again many plants awarded more than once, Macabre awarded 181 times!). So again 22% of the orchids Terry has created are award quality. Not all of the 426 hybrids are complexes. Terry has created hybrids from every Paph. section under the sun.

There are lots of other good Paph. breeders out there. Piping Rock Orchids, Windy Hill Orchids, Woodstream Orchids, and Hillsview are a few that come to mind. I think you should peek at Hillsview as they specialize in complexes.

Every breeder has an idea of what they are looking for when hybridizing. Since you are dealing with seed the variability is absurdly high. You might end up with 20% or less that are what you envisioned. You may also end up with something completely amazing that never occurred to you. I think it's also important to remember that the numbers I gave above are ONLY the registered hybrids. Who knows how many were so bad they ended up on the compost pile?

[JMNYC]

Originally Posted by quiltergal

Per OrchidWiz and RHS registrations Marriott Orchids has originated 163 complex Paph. hybrids. His plants have received 78 awards on 37 different plants (many having been awarded more than once). So 23% of the orchids he himself has bred have been award quality to date. Not bad. I think that percentage illustrates what NYCorchidman was trying to say about breeding being somewhat of a crap shoot.

Terry Root from The Orchid Zone has originated 426 Paph. hybrids. He has received 799 awards on 95 different plants (again many plants awarded more than once, Macabre awarded 181 times!). So again 22% of the orchids Terry has created are award quality. Not all of the 426 hybrids are complexes. Terry has created hybrids from every Paph. section under the sun.

There are lots of other good Paph. breeders out there. Piping Rock Orchids, Windy Hill Orchids, Woodstream Orchids, and Hillsview are a few that come to mind. I think you should peek at Hillsview as they specialize in complexes.

Every breeder has an idea of what they are looking for when hybridizing. Since you are dealing with seed the variability is absurdly high. You might end up with 20% or less that are what you envisioned. You may also end up with something completely amazing that never occurred to you. I think it's also important to remember that the numbers I gave above are ONLY the registered hybrids. Who knows how many were so bad they ended up on the compost pile?

Thanks for these data! I never thought this gentleman was the only uber breeder on the planet, but I do think he is exceptional, especially, given the apparent size of his operation.

I have ALWAYS known the detailed reality of hybridizing orchids, what is involved over time to come up with even one or two exceptional plants. That applies to everyone who chooses to do this, by definition, no exceptions. It is all a given.

It's also why, when I buy I buy almost no seedings....esp re complex Paphs!

Carter and Holmes does very decent breeding, Hausermann as well (along with many others)....which is why, when Gene at C&H found out I owned Paph Swallow 'Karen" he was hell bent on getting a division.....for breeding. (Again, he sent me my WC division in trade.)

Ironically, simply cause a guy at Hausermann adored me on the phone....he said, I am going to send you something AMAZING for $20, a small fraction of what it is worth..... something you will adore and most people can't afford. He would not even tell me the alliance. That.....is how I got my Paph Swallow 'karen' I loved her first bloom, but still had no clue re the fame or rarity of this hybrid. He, I realized a year later, had sent me a division from one of their stud 'karens'!

But, I am still in serious lust for at least 7 of the 23 cultivars on the Marriott. site I was drawn to.

Again, unexpected bonus: my having been determined to win my pah Eric 'Pittsburg' on ebay, I fist felt was indulgent, was confirmed, given, I think it could stand right up there with some of this gentleman's spotted complex reds! And, what I ended up giving, including shipping this past winter, was around $66. Which I now feel was an uber bargain!!!!

On my way out now to find a bank to rob so I can buy those seven hybrids.

Kidding!

And alas, I stand by all I have posted. I come to nothing with alacrity. Nor am I ever about combat or contests. I get paid to first "see" with original eyes, and then communicate all of it. I write (also counsel humans) for a living.


Thanks again for those data!!!!

[JMNYC]

Terri, et.al.....

I found an image of Paph Swallow 'karen" online; alas, I never took a pic of mine before it got killed after its first bloom. I will put that image up, FYI.

(https://www.flickr.com/photos/ki/89527253/)

[quiltergal]

It's very nice. I have to say that you and I are on opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to tastes in Paphs (shocker I know). I far prefer species and primary hybrids. I love big multi-florals, Parvis and Cochlis, and any combination of the three. I like seedlings because they are cheap, and I'm always hoping to win the genetic lottery and get that one unexpected amazing example.

I had a couple of complexes for a while just to prove to myself I could bloom them. After several successful bloom seasons I sold one and gave the other to a neighbor. They just don't do it for me.

[JMNYC]

Originally Posted by quiltergal

It's very nice. I have to say that you and I are on opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to tastes in Paphs (shocker I know). I far prefer species and primary hybrids. I love big multi-florals, Parvis and Cochlis, and any combination of the three.

I had a couple of complexes for a while just to prove to myself I could bloom them. After several successful bloom seasons I sold one and gave the other to a neighbor. They just don't do it for me.

It WAS nice, Terri.....until my then orchid tending surrogate ended up killiing many of my precious plants....and, in only two weeks.

Very normal for taste in this to be subjective! And who would want it any other way given the possibilities?

But, if U wanna go bank robbing with me so we can buy all our dream cultivars without a second thought.....I will meet you at the airport!

Excellent plan, given we will not be both wanting the same ones!

[Fairorchids]

When you look at the photos, undestand that award photos are from an optimum blooming. With variations in growing conditions and/ or blooming time, the resulting flowers can look quite different.

Hadley has bred many good things, but he has also purchased many of the plants shown from other breeders and collectors.

[JMNYC]

Originally Posted by Fairorchids

When you look at the photos, undestand that award photos are from an optimum blooming. With variations in growing conditions and/ or blooming time, the resulting flowers can look quite different.

Hadley has bred many good things, but he has also purchased many of the plants shown from other breeders and collectors.

Again, making images at the peak of bloom is the default within the entire subculture. I assumed that was a given.

Hadley, in his descriptions of some of the divisions he offers, often refers to such as "when I bought it....'
I never assumed had had personally bred all he offers.....but I submit there is no obfuscation on his site, and he is not about chicanery. AT ALL.

Even just by reading his descriptions, you get a very clear sense of who he is, what he knows on which levels and what he brings.

This guy is no dilettante.

[lotis146]

One thing I try to keep in mind when looking at photos of blooms is not only that plants grown from seed are bound to be different but also that photos can be "enhanced" very subtly. Without making the photo "fake" you can make colors more vibrant and increase the contrast. This is great to do but I just hate the thought when I'm looking plants photos and wondering if it's shown as taken or "improved upon".

I've gotten a number of plants - again knowing the photos were just representations - that wound up looking nothing like the photo. My Paph. President Fred & Hawaiian Illusion weren't what I expected. In fact Pres. Fred is better than I thought it would be (said bred to bring out the pink but looks more red to me) while Hawaiian Illusion wasn't nearly as impressive. I just got three Paphs from Hausermann's, all in spike, with dark buds, serious gamble for me (totally surprise buys) but I can't wait to see. Two have only one growth so they're going to be newbies to the world, while the third is crossed with Fairrieanum and has three growths, maybe it bloomed already??? I really actually wanted to get a 4th, and might go back, because they had so many in spike with dark buds and cool leaves...I digress...

What I know of Orchid genetics reminds me of the little bit I've read about apples. I had no idea that all apples are hybrids of one original species/tree (sorry I'm not exact on my facts here) and that each new seedling produces a new apple tree. In other words the apples we eat over and over are cloned in order to keep getting a Honeycrisp. How many crappy apples have breeders tasted? Lol. I'm a bit nervous myself about these 3, excited, yes but nervous because really I bought blindly (GAMBLER!). I didn't know when I first became truly obsessed that so many plants are first bloomed THEN sold.

I'm also nervous to be starting out on the breeding road of some of my Phals!!

Interesting thread though, even with all the bickering. I must say I do appreciate that that's not an all the time thing like it is on a lot of forums. But I do so understand it as well.

[RosieC]

Just a warning to 'keep it friendly'.

This thread seems to be back onto the friendly track again with the latest posts and at this point moderators are not taking any action, however some folks have reported to us that they are upset with comments here and skim reading through I can see why that is.

So, keep it friendly, and please refrain from any personal comments even if you disagree with what someone has said.