Why I Wish Paphs Could be Mericloned

[JMNYC]

Hi. Sigh.

My take, is this vendor below offers divisions of some worldclass complex Paphs (my gestating new passion), brilliantly bred.

Scroll thru as many as possible and just behold the shape, the colors, the balance, the flatness of the segments on almost all!!!!!

Breathtaking.

But, the prices........

Division Listing

---------- Post added at 09:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:03 PM ----------

Wait!~ I only just now scrolled down using their culture tab.....and found their fertilizing recommendations!

And simply given they do appear in a class by themselves, I am am taking this seriously!!!!

Fertilizer: Fertilizer should be applied regularly. The type used in Spring through early Fall should be a 30-10-10, 20-10-20, or 20,20,20 fertilizer every second or third watering at 1/4 to 1/2 the recommended strength. (Normally 1/2 to 3/4 tsp. per gallon.) In the mid Fall and through Winter switch to a bloom booster type of fertilizer (with a low first number and high middle number like a 10-30-20) or African Violet fertilizer, again at 1/4 to 1/2 the recommended strength.

---------- Post added at 09:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:12 PM ----------

K....so far, I have found 23 I want right now. Including this, which tells me, my lust for the big reds is not confined to those with spots:

http://www.marriottorchids.com/Galle...irror%20AM.jpg

I must email them and ask how much a division of this knee-weakening beauty would be WITHOUT the Corvette.

[MrHappyRotter]

Don't stress too much. A lot of what Marriott displays and offers is, how do I put this, an over priced illusion. I'm not here to bad mouth anybody or anybody's business, particularly not one of the locals, so I'm just saying, enjoy the fantasy, the photos, and the illusion, but don't in any way shape or form think that what you're seeing is reality or that there's any chance you'll get a plant that will do well outside of very specialized and precise growing conditions.

[gnathaniel]

AFAIK Paphs can be mericloned, but for various reasons the procedures currently lack much utility in the horticultural trade.

[NYCorchidman]

Again, fertilizing regime they use is what they choose, not something you must follow.

Balanced fertilizers works just as great.

Plus, fertilizers do not make these flowers, it's in the gene.

You make lots of crosses and bloom them all out.
Surely you will get a few great looking ones here and there. It's like hitting jackpot in the lottery. The rest are basically just throw outs or sell to the general populations for much cheaper price.
That's just how it is and why the best of the best are super expensive.

I suggest that if you have the space and the patience, seek out for flasks of hybrids with some great potentails, and this will not be easy because growers want to keep them to themselves, but sometimes they do come up.

Then you grow all those babies for a number of years.
You should get one nice looking paph, and even then it might not win an award, but hey, if you end up happy with your plant, then it's much cheaper to take this route than to buy those divisions.

With this said, I have nothing against buying those beautiful and expensive paphs.

[JMNYC]

Originally Posted by MrHappyRotter

Don't stress too much. A lot of what Marriott displays and offers is, how do I put this, an over priced illusion. I'm not here to bad mouth anybody or anybody's business, particularly not one of the locals, so I'm just saying, enjoy the fantasy, the photos, and the illusion, but don't in any way shape or form think that what you're seeing is reality or that there's any chance you'll get a plant that will do well outside of very specialized and precise growing conditions.

O!!!

At this moment my little face exactly resembles the smilie above!

By all accounts, I am hugely discerning.....while ALSO having little cynicism. The latter has upsides....and downsides.

Are some of those worldclass named cultivars depicted not actual?????

---------- Post added at 01:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:13 AM ----------

Originally Posted by NYCorchidman

Again, fertilizing regime they use is what they choose, not something you must follow.

Balanced fertilizers works just as great.

Plus, fertilizers do not make these flowers, it's in the gene.

You make lots of crosses and bloom them all out.
Surely you will get a few great looking ones here and there. It's like hitting jackpot in the lottery. The rest are basically just throw outs or sell to the general populations for much cheaper price.
That's just how it is and why the best of the best are super expensive.

I suggest that if you have the space and the patience, seek out for flasks of hybrids with some great potentails, and this will not be easy because growers want to keep them to themselves, but sometimes they do come up.

Then you grow all those babies for a number of years.
You should get one nice looking paph, and even then it might not win an award, but hey, if you end up happy with your plant, then it's much cheaper to take this route than to buy those divisions.

With this said, I have nothing against buying those beautiful and expensive paphs.

The chronology you delineate, I assumed is a given.

But, to me, also moot, given how many worldclass cultivars this gentleman seems to have bred over 25 years....is ATYPICAL, if not unique. Assuming those depictions are actual.

It seems no other commercial grower/breeder of complex Phals even comes close.

I think all this is something to celebrate....not trivialize.

I find it thrilling and inspiring.....even if aspects of that site are not exactly as they appear.

And I could not care much less about awards, tho his hybids have won hundreds. Such things have little impact on my being my own arbiter/judge and jury re what moves and thrills me.

As I shared in a PM.....coming upon all those "Be still my heart" cultivars...made me feel even better about having determined to win my Paph Eric 'pittsburgh' on eBay this past winter.

I follow the bulldogs in their seasonal offerings on ebay....and until that one went up, I had never been moved to bid on any. the flat segments, the color, the balance I am drawn to, seem to mark all this gentleman's triumphs.

[Ray]

JMNYC - Hadley grows some absolutely outstanding plants. (I have family in Greensboro, so can be at Marriott in under 30 minutes.)

I'll acknowledge that his prices can be pretty steep at times, but I've never purchased anything from him that I didn't consider a good deal.

Here's a Phrag Sorcerer's Apprentice I got there that has been getting nothing buy K-Lite for 3 years. (It blooms redder when the temperatures are lower):

[NYCorchidman]

I don't see where in my last comment you find something that is "trivializing" Hadley Cash and his plants.

I simply stated the fact that the desirable hybrids he come up with have mainly to do with chances of genetic combinations, and not his fertilization regime.

Plus, your saying none other paphiopedilum breeders come close to him might have simply mean your respect and admiration for his results, but it rather sounds too ignorant and even highly offensive because yes, he is well known in the slipper world, but guess what! He is not the only one and there are MANY other great paph breeders in the US and other countries.

One more thing, and this you might twist or misunderstand, but my intention is to enlighten you, not to degrade Hadley Cash, is that all those pictures are real, but not all (acutally many many of them) are his creation. Good chunks are well known classic complex paphs that were bred looooong time ago in the Great Britain.

He was lucky to include such nice plants to include into his breeding programs.

Also, many award quality beautiful paphs are photographed in their prime.
The may look that nice for short period of time as distortion of dorsal or other flower parts are common.
Plus, with such complex hybrids, the flower quality does vary, although some are more (or even nearly always) consistent than others.

[JMNYC]

Originally Posted by gnathaniel

AFAIK Paphs can be mericloned, but for various reasons the procedures currently lack much utility in the horticultural trade.

Well! I had no clue! Do you mean the procedures are daunting? Too expensive to be a part of the commercial world? Inconsistent in the results they produce?

Can you please elaborate?

---------- Post added at 03:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:45 PM ----------

I don't see where in my last comment you find something that is "trivializing" Hadley Cash and his plants.

I felt you were in a palpable leit motif giving left handed compliments and trivializing, and methinks you still are.

I simply stated the fact that the desirable hybrids he come up with have mainly to do with chances of genetic combinations, and not his fertilization regime.

You are saying he doesn't make keen differential decisions in breeding, but is some version of haphazard, even arbitrary.
I read everything on his site, and my take-away is he is anything but. I found that thrilling. Not to mention, I doubt his facility is anywhere NEAR as big as the huge commercial, well reputed growers who have the facilities, the staff to produce far more flasks than this guy.

Plus, your saying none other paphiopedilum breeders come close to him might have simply mean your respect and admiration for his results, but it rather sounds too ignorant and even highly offensive because yes, he is well known in the slipper world, but guess what! He is not the only one and there are MANY other great paph breeders in the US and other countries.

Sigh...more invective hurling. Can you offer secifics in who has achieved more impressive results?

One more thing, and this you might twist or misunderstand, but my intention is to enlighten you,

Again, authoritarian versus the linchpin of what marks a,ll fine academic communities: authoritative...and heady exchanges always absent insults and name calling.

.... all those pictures are real, but not all (acutally many many of them) are his creation. Good chunks are well known classic complex paphs that were bred looooong time ago in the Great Britain.

I would love one or two examples.

He was lucky to include such nice plants to include into his breeding programs.

Clearly, and who would gain say this???.....the gentleman did not start from SCRATCH. Who alive in this endeavor has?

Also, many award quality beautiful paphs are photographed in their prime.

Aren't ALL orchids professionals choose to photograph for publication (except when they depict pathology_???

The may look that nice for short period of time as distortion of dorsal or other flower parts are common.
Plus, with such complex hybrids, the flower quality does vary, although some are more (or even nearly always) consistent than others.


Well, all of your offering, concluding with the above: my take is not just trivializing, but actually impugning.

What in all of commerce, is not depicted in its most ideal state? Think runways in Milan....or Paris, NY. Think Charles Marden Fitch!

And, while this guy has cutting edge photo equipment, now, I am sure, fine Digital SLRs ....just seeing how meticulous he is in THAT, for me, was emblematic of all he brings in this entire arena.

Finally, it also appears, Lee Cook of the AOS might disagree with what you INSIST is the truth re this gentleman and what he does and has accomplished and continues to.

---------- Post added at 03:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:01 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Ray

JMNYC - Hadley grows some absolutely outstanding plants. (I have family in Greensboro, so can be at Marriott in under 30 minutes.)

I'll acknowledge that his prices can be pretty steep at times, but I've never purchased anything from him that I didn't consider a good deal.

Here's a Phrag Sorcerer's Apprentice I got there that has been getting nothing buy K-Lite for 3 years. (It blooms redder when the temperatures are lower):

O! So many thanks Ray, for what, for me, appears an important, objectively accurate assessment! And that Phrag...its form, with colors both vivid and subtle.....IS TO DIE FOR.

You are 30 mins away from his facility? Lucky you!!!!

Not to mention, you Phrag is perfectly grown. No surprise.

We all know market values work back to what a given individual is willing to pay. I simply would not choose to give $1,500 for a division of one of this gentleman's singularly breathtaking Paphs.

But I cherish you shared, via first hand experience, you feel the specimens have chosen to buy from him....were worth what you gave!

[NYCorchidman]

Wow~

I think you have serious reading problems unless you are doing this intentionally.

I'm tired of this, so I'll make this as short as possible and this will be my last post here.

First, I was only responding to the way you started your thread. Great hybrids at Marriot orchids and then you added in their fertilizing schedule. You also started a thread about how fertilizing certain way causes paphs to spike. So I responded by saying it is not so. See I was only relating things that you considered to begin with, rather than giving left handed or trivializing views. How ridiculous!

Two, I never said he did not make keen differential decisions in breeding. Now you're literally putting words into my mouth.
I only said how hybridizing works. With all the great intentions and desire ( however keen differential decision making is involved), it's in the end the chance game, hence I compared it to lottery.
You have real problem of twisting things around.

Plus, the rest of what you said only shows how ignorant and rude you are.

Take some time and do your own search if you so wish to find out who are some great breeders are and their plants.

If you have some more time, then visit marriot orchids website photo gallery section, start with page A and find out who the original breeders and registers are.

Have fun!

[Ray]

Originally Posted by JMNYC

You are 30 mins away from his facility? Lucky you!!!!

No, I'm about 8 hours from him, in Bucks County PA. I have family in GSO, so I have an excuse to be down there.