Not Karen Sue, Meet No Id Phrag

[Optimist]

Hi. The new Phrag I bought as a Karen Sue, was not Karen Sue. It is instead a kind of dark red mix that is "None of the above." It is nice and dark red, but not Karen Sue. The leaves are wrong and also the whole lip and interior of the lip. The lip looks like Grande. Oh well. It still has 5 new growths starting.

[WaterWitchin]

Nice one. Maybe just a new tag and rename it Mystery Karen?

[Louis_W]

Can you get in touch with the grower or seller? It seems like Phrags with P. Kovachii in the perentage are still valuable and sought-after enough that someone would know.

[estación seca]

I'm not familiar with the cross. Is this a seedling? It might be in the normal range of characteristics for the cross.

[WaterWitchin]

After my smartypants comment, I looked up Karen Sue. Yep, ain't no Karen, Sue or otherwise. It sure does have a lot of similarity to one I have...Phrag longifolium 'Black as Night' x Phrag dalessandroii. Color of first is bad lighting and color of second pic is accurate.

[Optimist]

Originally Posted by estación seca

I'm not familiar with the cross. Is this a seedling? It might be in the normal range of characteristics for the cross.

I brought this up at another forum, and their phrag guy (or at least the guy who owns more than any other there) says that due to the randomness of genetics and the fact that phrags and paphs both are not clones, and all grown from seed, the randomness is much greater. This one could very well be a sibling of one that looks exactly like the Karen Sue shown in photographs. Since I don't know the range of genetic variation that a single seedpod might carry, I can only assume that it is pretty large, and frankly, I have to assume that this is Karen Sue, but with more of its grandparents showing. It is still a huge flower and not bad-looking. I'll probably get suckered into buying another "Kovachii" hybrid again. LOL

[Optimist]

Originally Posted by WaterWitchin

After my smartypants comment, I looked up Karen Sue. Yep, ain't no Karen, Sue or otherwise.

Well I really want Karen Sue. I am going to try again. You know what I just did? I looked up the Quintal Phrags and found one called QF Lein'ala. By gum, he's got that on his list of plants he is selling. It was a tag mix up. Check this out. One is a picture from google search, the other is my plant. Same plant.

[estación seca]

I agree, it might have been a tag mixup with that cross, but without seeing more of the expected variability of Karen Sue I wouldn't be certain.

Both hybrids have kovachii plus longifolium and/or longifolium relatives in the background. Those are extremely different groups of Phrags and gene assortment will lead to an extremely wide range of progeny. The main difference between them is Karen Sue has bessae ancestry and QF Leina'ala doesn't.

Orchidroots.com:
Phragmipedium Karen Sue, C.Acker 2012
Phragmipedium QF Leina'ala, Quintal 2019

Note the correct spelling of Leina'ala, which I'm sure was just a typo.

[Optimist]

Originally Posted by estación seca

The main difference between them is Karen Sue has bessae ancestry and QF Leina'ala doesn't.

I agree. But KarenSue is 50% Kovachii, she should show a lot more Kovachii. Ya never know though! The longifolum and seargiantum are minimal 9 percent each.

The Leina'ala is 50% longifolium, 25% Caricinum, 25% Kovachii. I think in this case the appearance would show the predominance of longifolium or another phrag of that kind.

(Caricinum is interesting-- has a great pouch. Never heard of that.)

You know, I just realized, this is the paph side not the phrag side, so sorry!