Phrags and wet feet

[Lady Meera]

I just bought a Phrag Grande in spike. Im excited for it to bloom. I've always wanted a long petal slipper! The grower told me lots of light and wet feet, which he explained as sitting the pot in about an inch of water.

I also have a Phrag Nicholle Tower. When I bought this one last summer I was told low light and don't let it dry out. I have the Nicholle sitting in a decorative pot with wet rocks in the bottom. It is currently growing a new fan.

I put the Grande in a decorative pot with water in the bottom, but the water quickly turned stale, stinky, and dirty. I had some rocks in there too and they got slimy. I took the rocks out and refreshed the water but it got stale again right away. I'm wondering if the "wet feet" is really necessary, or can I do wet rocks like I do with the Nicholle? I saw some folks on this forum use a saucer for the standing water. Is that less likely to go stale and stinky? I'm worried about mold because the Grande's pot smelled and was slimy.

I'm asking because I was told two fairly different culture requirements for these two phrags. I understand there is variability, but I want to make sure I keep this Grande happy. It was expensive

[MrHappyRotter]

For the Nicolle Tower, you definitely need to keep the roots moist, and the easiest way to do that is to leave a small amount of water sitting in the saucer at all times. It doesn't have to be much, and depending on the pot size, 1 inch of water is probably a bit much. In terms of light, this hybrid will tolerate and even bloom in somewhat shady conditions, but will probably do better with light levels closer to what you'd give an Oncidium.

Phrag. Grande can be hit or miss on the watering requirements, but normally ends up on the constant moisture side of things. Therefore, sitting in a shallow, open saucer with a bit of water in it at all times is perfectly appropriate, unless you start having rot problems. Grande will do better on the brighter side in terms of light. It will grow just fine in shady conditions, but may not bloom or may only bloom once every few years or longer.

For the most part, though, their care can be considered identical in most collections, as long as you're not growing them on the extreme ends of their cultural needs.

As far as the stinky, stale water, that could be from several things. Your decorative pots may indeed be too deep and too restrictive in terms of air flow around the pot and roots. The water could just be too deep, you're not trying to flood the root system for long periods of time. If the water you're using is too high in nutrients (or lots of nutrients from the mix have dissolved into the water), then that can breed bacteria, fungi, and even algae all of which can turn rancid pretty quickly. That may be part of the smell. It's also possible that some of the potting mix is rotting, or more worryingly, some of the plants roots have started to rot. It's certainly worth pulling the plant out of the pot to check up on it.

I'd say, bad smells are definitely a sign that something needs to change. You could try flushing the pot with very pure water (RO, rain, etc) to leach out excess nutrients, keeping the pot sitting in a shallow saucer, and only leaving a small amount of water in the saucer (less than an inch). If the roots look bad or the mix is breaking down, it's the perfect time to repot -- the growing season has begun, Spring is here.

[estación seca]

Maybe I misunderstood - are you putting the plant's pot (with bottom holes) into a deeper decorative pot without any holes, and having some water stand in the dark nether regions of the decorative pot?

I think that is likely to cause smelly water. The water is in the dark, not exposed to light, and there is not much air exchange down in the bottom of the decorative pot.

It would be better to stand a pot you are willing to look at, with bottom holes, in a saucer wider than the pot, so the water in the saucer is exposed to light and air.

[Lady Meera]

Thank you MrHappyRotter! This information is extremely helpful. I do have an RO system. I will use that and a saucer from now on, for both phrags. My Nicholle is getting brown leaf tips and I read that's from over-fertilizing, so I will cut back to weakly-monthly maybe.

And yes, Estacion, no light or air flow. I will remedy that immediately.

I have fresh phrag/paph mix from repotme but is it okay to repot while the plant is in spike? I have a great fear of bud blast.

Thanks again for all the help!

[No-Pro-mwa]

I have the same fear. I would wait to re-pot til it has bloomed. And do post a picture. I have a Les Diroules which is Sorcerer's Apprentice x Grande that I just love. I am waiting to re-pot but it is now going to bloom from a second growth. I set it in a saucer of water with about an inch of water and it sucks it up pretty fast.

[Lady Meera]

Originally Posted by No-Pro-mwa

I have the same fear. I would wait to re-pot til it has bloomed. And do post a picture. I have a Les Diroules which is Sorcerer's Apprentice x Grande that I just love. I am waiting to re-pot but it is now going to bloom from a second growth. I set it in a saucer of water with about an inch of water and it sucks it up pretty fast.

I just looked up Les Diroules and it looks so beautiful, I'm jealous. I want ALL the long petal slippers ha! The vendor I got the Grande from had one for $100, but I don't remember the name because I tried to delete it from my brain before I splurged. I need to be confident I can rebloom a $50 phrag before I buy a $100 phrag.

I will definitely post a picture *when* my Grande blooms. I just ordered some saucers so it will have a new home soon.

Is the Grande a sequential bloomer like the Nicholle?

[phraggy]

I am a phrag grower and I think that standing the plant in water is the last thing I would ever do. OK phrags like wet feet - but with excellent quality water and you wont get this unless you change the water daily in the saucer,
Phrags grow pretty near running water so their roots are constantly in fresh water.
If I were you I would repot, wether in spike or not, it will not do any harm to the plant. After repotting water it well and keep watering with fresh water at least three times per week-- I do mine every two days. This stops pockets of water held in the compost from becoming stale and keeps away fungii and bacteria which will develope when water is left standing. Go careful on the fert phrags do not like it applied too often or else you will burn the roots and get the leaftip burns. So to sum up fresh water and more fresh water will be so beneficial to the roots and give you a lot of pleasure with your phrags.

Ed

[Lady Meera]

Thank you Phraggy! I am going to cut way back on fertilizer and I think I will move to watering with RO only, unless you think the Phrags will need nutrients from the tap since I will be fertilizing less. I don't use RO for all my orchids becaus I have a small tank and way too many plants.

Also, I think I will use the saucers for holding wet rocks to sit the Phrags on instead of standing them in water. I been apprehensive about the "wet feet" from the beginning. I also ordered more mix so I think I will repot. It is in spike but not in bud so that eases my bud blast concerns some.

---------- Post added at 04:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:33 PM ----------

I guess I could try to find a shallow tabletop fountain to sit it in. That would most likely mimic the fresh running water they like and probably increase the humidity in my growing (a.k.a. dining) room for the other plants as well. I would just need to make sure it has a filter, but that may offer the best of both worlds.

[Helene]

I have no experience with this plant, and they do have different needs.

But, I can say that in my opinion- repotting is of course preferable when its the "right time" for that plant. But its always the "right time" if you think the condition in the pot is no good for the plant.
I rather risk a flower, than putting the plant through blooming if its not in a healthy environment.

I repotted a paph and a psychopsis last week, and they seem to be happy about it. No fussing. (Knock on wood&#128540
The psychopsis even decided to grow and is really happy. I have a deal with that one😂 (I promised to be really kind to it, if it could be nice and appreciate the repotting instead of being fussy about it…)

In the long run it will usually reward you- I always put the plant overall health first, and then I can concern about the flower. Actually- considering the plant first often makes them flower anyway.

Wish you all the best with growing them- sounds like you just need to listen to yourself- and do what you think will work.
Hoping to see pictures when it blooms in the near future👍🏻😊

[wintergirl]

I have a phrag that has a nice bud and 2 new growths under my care. I first kept it in bark but now I have it in s/h pellets. In the bark I misted the media every day with clean rain water but now that it is in the pellets I don't need to mist. I keep it a small saucer of rain water about 1/2 inch. I change the water once a week and wipe slime out of the saucer. I also run clean rain water through the plant weekly. I don't use this water to set in, I get fresh for that after the "run through". It did not even react to the repot.