Phrag kovachii - Orchid Board

Eric M Muehlbauer · #1 05-30-2006, 09:13 PM

Well, I have been impressed by kovachii....but only by its size, not its color...certainly not its shape, as I have read that the blooms start to curl almost immediately after opening...I for one will wait until kovachii becomes a more commonplace seedling to buy...by then, easier culture strains will be around..although I have heard that kovachii is "easy"...that's still only from professional growers in Peru. I'm comparing kovachii to besseae...when besseae first became available, it was not an easy phrag to grow...and for me, the infamous orchid killer, phrags are the easiest slippers to grow..among the easiest orchids to grow. Now, besseae's are easier to grow, no harder than other phrags, and way better looking...I'll still take my besseae over any phrag hybrid, period. So...I can wait. Take care, Eric

Heather · #2 05-30-2006, 09:30 PM

I am with Eric on this - and I have the chance to buy my first hyrbids in the near future - but have decided to wait. I figure, small plants growing larger in experienced growers' greenhouses will grow better and better to let them do the experimenting.

I want one now, but I think waiting, for me, is a better option.

Oscarman · #3 05-30-2006, 11:08 PM

Understandable Phrag kovachii will generate a ton of attention - the color, the size, the potential. The impact on breeding is very exciting. But come on....$100 per seedling, $1000 per flask - ridiculous!

It all sounds like a lot of hype of a new species and I want to first on the block to own one!

Much respect to any of you for not succumbing to the hype and the frenzy.

Heather · #4 05-31-2006, 08:25 AM

Actually, $100 a seedling is really quite reasonable.
Hybrid seedlings are going for $75. When besseae was first available (and as Eric said, tricky!), plants were well into the thousands of dollars.

Glen's always said his plan is to flood the market as early as possible with lower priced species seedlings in order to avoid that sort of price gouging that went on with besseae.

He also has a jump on the other two because he isn't working with Peruflora (Arias), who made everyone sign agreements that the seedlings would not be sold until 2007. So, by the time Chuck and Jerry (who owns Orchids Ltd - not affiliated with Ackers except in friendship) can sell their seedlings, Glen's plants will have already been on the market for quite a while.

However, I still think that letting the professionals grow them and figure them out for a while, is not such a bad plan.

I'm looking forward to seeing the hybrids in person in a few weeks. Hopefully Glen will allow photos.

Neofalcata · #5 05-31-2006, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric M Muehlbauer

Well, I have been impressed by kovachii....but only by its size, not its color...certainly not its shape, as I have read that the blooms start to curl almost immediately after opening...

I guess I have to be the voice of the minority on this board as well.

First it needs to be renamed Peruvianum. Second, the very thing that I love about Kovachii is the big floppy petals. That is the way it was created. Once breeders start "improving" it, it will lose the very thing that makes it beautiful in the first place. Will the second and third generation Kovachii's be great? Sure. But they won't be the same, or as nice IMO as the big pink/purple floppy eared beauty. Man's improvement of nature's already perfect orchids for the sake of a few ribbons and a slap on the back by an AOS judge isn't what Kovachii needs.

Heather · #6 05-31-2006, 05:35 PM

You know, to each their own, that's the bottom line if you ask me. And Neo - I actually think you may be more in the majority here! But I'd like to throw this one out there to you - how BRED have Neofinitias been? It is my understanding that breeding quality Neos is regarded as an art form, and until recently one reserved for the ultra elite in Japan.

My point is - to each their own.

I am most looking forward to seeing the first kov. seedlings and hybrids, and also their future. I think it is very exciting!

<peeve alert>
BTW, species are not capitalized. (come on Julie, back me up on this will ya?) </peeve>

Where is Rob Halgren, anyway?

Piper · #7 05-31-2006, 05:53 PM

Don't forget...small caps are a sign of coolness, and species are truly cool! Especially newly discovered ones...which I've already ordered! (Guess that shows where I fall in this discussion!)

julie

Neofalcata · #8 05-31-2006, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paphgirl

You know, to each their own, that's the bottom line if you ask me. And Neo - I actually think you may be more in the majority here! But I'd like to throw this one out there to you - how BRED have Neofinitias been? It is my understanding that breeding quality Neos is regarded as an art form, and until recently one reserved for the ultra elite in Japan.

Heather,

I own both wild collected and "bred" versions of besseae. I prefer wild collected style besseae to the round petal look, but both are nice in their own way. If this is any indication of the type of "breeding improvements" we will see in kovachii in the coming years, I will be glad to just have the kovachii that is coming within the next year and leave the "improved" line bred offspring to people who want to show them.

I am not sure what Neo's have to do with kovachii, but I think you want to label me a hypocrite. Variegated Neo's are divisions of wild collected plants. There is only one type of variegated Neo that will produce variegated seedlings, and even then the offspring so closely resemble the parents that it is next to impossible to tell which is the seedling and which is the division. All other variegated types are divisions of age old plants, period. Other Neo's can be grown from seed, but are so far from being "bred" for changes, it is not even an issue. Neo's today look just like Neo's did hundreds of years ago. That is why some are so expensive, because they are divisions of mother plants which may be very rare. Jason Fischer is selling divisions of a plant that was collected in the 1800's if memory serves.

I was simply trying to express my opinion about kovachii, which happens to be exactly the opposite of alot of people. To each his own, usually means letting someone voice their opinion, even if it greatly differs from your own without trying to bait them.

By the way, sorry for the capitilization of kovachii in my previous post. Didn't know it urked you so much. I am not going to go back and edit out my improper caps in that first post though, because that would be wrong. I promise to do better.

littlefrog · #9 06-01-2006, 10:39 AM

Unfortunately the name kovachii takes precedence due to its being published first. At least that is the ruling on the field... Sneakily and with probable illegal material, but first. I prefer peruvianum, as well.

Glen Decker made a good point about kovachii at our judging seminar in May. If it has round flat petals, it ain't open... Don't judge it! I agree that part of the charm is the large floppy petals. Like Dumbo's ears. I've got dibs on Dumbo as a clonal name, people!! It is impossible to tell what it will give to its hybrids. The purple colors that you see are hard to come by otherwise. I think increased petal width in the hybrids would be a plus. But we will have to breed away from floppy - regardless of how charming it is, it won't be easy to sell.

I liked it well enough to buy two flasks from Glen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neofalcata

I guess I have to be the voice of the minority on this board as well.

First it needs to be renamed Peruvianum. Second, the very thing that I love about Kovachii is the big floppy petals. That is the way it was created. Once breeders start "improving" it, it will lose the very thing that makes it beautiful in the first place. Will the second and third generation Kovachii's be great? Sure. But they won't be the same, or as nice IMO as the big pink/purple floppy eared beauty. Man's improvement of nature's already perfect orchids for the sake of a few ribbons and a slap on the back by an AOS judge isn't what Kovachii needs.

Neofalcata · #10 06-01-2006, 11:01 AM

I had read that part of the sentence against Selby gardens was that they had to petition to have the name changed. I assume this has already happened, and the choice has already been made to leave it as kovachii?

You would think that something like this would tarnish the reputation of the taxonomical community, and that they would want to change it. Also, is taxonomical a word?

Someday, I am going to build a greenhouse where I only grow seedlings from natural looking orchids. Angular besseae, floppy kovachii, and phals that don't overlap. They may not sell, but it will be beautiful.