Help needed - any antifungals from household/organic products?

[allla]

My name is Alex and I live in southeast France. I have a problem with root rot I believe.

My cym and one dendrobium and some miltonias have roots that partly turned black. They do not rehydrate though those roots or through their old roots which seem to stay white or light brownish but firm.

I spray with very diluted fish emulsion and some foliar feed with kelp. It seems to somewhat help the new roots - my cym has none so far so it is badly dehydrated (could I give him/her a leaf bath of honey water?) it is in a plastic bag which I opened; its roots have slowly gone all black not from my watering though. They were partly black when bought in Ik... and it all progressed even though I tried to cut the rot away. I did not let it dry between the cuts because it was already dehydrated and suffering.

I have no fungicide (I suppose I need one) because all my orchids are indoors and I have children so I can't buy a "normal" commercial antifungal for fera of toxicity. Cinnamon powder inhibits root growth from what I read... Could I use anything else as antifungal?

(I have neem oil but not watersoluble and GSE grapefruit seed extract but I am unsure as to the concentrations or toxicity to plants) Could anyone help by suggesting some antifungals?

I want to thank you all for your lovely postings and for this forum which I read often to help my beloved ones.

---------- Post added at 06:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:16 PM ----------

I must say that I chnged them from their intial moss medium to small to medium grade bark so they might have to change roots ??

[kindrag23]

If you changed potting media that is part of the issue, the older roots are not acclimated to the new media. Can you get the old school yellow Listerine there that works as an anti fungal that won't hurt the plants or kids.

[Cym Ladye]

How many mature pseudobulbs are on the Cym? If you have more than 3, did you cut away the old rotten roots, especially those off any pseudobulb which has no leaves? If you need roots to hold the plant in the new mix, cut the roots to about 4" and then strip the outer rotten vellum off but leave the root itself to hold the plant in the pot while the plant grows new ones.

I suspect the plant may have been over watered in the moss before you got it and the roots had already rotted as a result. If you do not remove those roots when you repot in new mix, you will still have a way too wet scenario in the pot. And, as said, it will take time to develop new roots.

Your new mix sounds fine but I see no reason for a plastic bag if you have several bulbs. Just give it time. The best way to treat it is to let it dry outside the pot for 48 hours and then do not over water it. In any case, you are fussing waaaaaay too much with your plant.

[allla]

Thank you very much Kindra for the listerine suggestion! Yes I can get it here but how do I use it? How should I dilute it?

Thank you very much also Cym Lady. I feel really special that you answered my cry for help because I read many of your messages and have always found them intresting and helpful. You do have a lot of experience with cyms and that shows.

The plant was purchased in November with roots half rootten or partly rotten and some very pretty white and pink flowers. I cut the stem but did not have the heart to cut all the partly rotten roots so as you said they kept decomposing untill now when there is nothing left. It's a rather small plant only has 1 mature bulb and 2 baby bulbs. The old bulb which had flowered dried up while I was trying to help the plant make roots, the leaves look really dry and unhappy but they are all still green. It is now in bark in a ziplock in a North facing window. It gets light because it is stuck against the glass but no sun and the bag keeps humidity high. As I just placed it just yesterday in a ziplock it is too soon to know if it likes it or not.

it is burried in medium bark 1 inch deep in a transparent plastic pot.

Should I give its existing foliage some honey bath? Would the bulbs drink and rehydrate even a little?

I think I would like to spray the base of the bulb where all the rot arrived right now with neem oil in water at 10%. Would that be too much? This is my first ever cym and I love it because the soft white and pink remind me of my marriage bouquet; it was so pretty and delicate with its soft colours I'd do everything I could to save it. I just don't know how to help it since it kept going downhill for such a long time. I tried very diluted foliar feeds spraying its leaves during the cold winter months but I had to stop because I noticed little black sots on the leaves and thought that was a sign of fungus... cold and wet would not be good I thought and then I put it in bark but it kept drying out and rotting.

I didn't know that roots have to change when one changes the media. My den nobile must have suffered like that. It has just made 2 very small shoots and tiny 2 mm new green roots - even though its old roots are still there and not rotten (they seem to be useless as the canes also get drier while trying to grow new roots

[kindrag23]

Home remedies for ailing orchids - Orchid Board

Here's from the OB. On how you can use it.

[quiltergal]

Neem oil will do nothing to stop rot. It works on insects but not bacteria. I would just leave it alone. I know your intentions are good but the more things you try the more complicated your issues become.

[allla]

Thank you so much! I'll buy the Listerine tomorow and the sphagnum also!!

---------- Post added at 11:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:55 PM ----------

Should I try the honey water bath for its leaves? how much honey should I use? I haven't manages to find in French exact references to quantities

---------- Post added 06-10-2014 at 12:09 AM ---------- Previous post was 06-09-2014 at 11:56 PM ----------

apparently I found the honey water solution -1 full spoon for 1/4 of a liter of raw sugar cane or raw honey and to let the leaves or roots (but I have none) sit in this solution 24 or 48h to rehydrate the plant.

I think I will try it tomorrow as I do not have to take the thing out of the pot any more (well stuck in the plastic bottle)

[kindrag23]

The honey water thing I ha r never heard of. What is it supposed to be good for? Interesting.

[allla]

Someone rescued a dehydrated Vanda and others rescued phals, oncidiums by soaking them in this mixture in order to feed the plant. It is supposed to boost the plant untill it can set roots again. Mine is stuck in the pot so I can't disturb the "roots" - I'll just soak the leaves in honey water tomorrow and after that the base in listerine with some well squeezed sphag moss on top.

I really hope it survives and recovers. Keep your fingers crossed for me!

forgot to say that the people who advised the honey bath said no need to rinse afterwards just avoid any water staying in the center of the crown after you take ti out of the bath... I am planning to put it back in the ziplock wet and avoid any drops in the center of the crowns.the advice was given to some other person trying to rescue an orchid on a French forum

Thank you again everyone for your kind help!

PPS
I am very sleepy please forgive me for my spelling mistakes it is 1 AM

---------- Post added at 12:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:45 AM ----------

I am afraid to appear a freak but the things I read here on organic fertilizers/treatments resemble closely the compost tea - fermented stinging nettles, horsetail (antifungal) and fern and some medicinal plants. Rather stinky in general yuk but they are very very good (diluted 1 to 10 or 20 times) as a quick growth spurt. Probably not good for long term use and certainly the growth slows after the initial "boom" because I experimented already, nonetheless interesting noticeable effect on leaves and bulbs.

[Cym Ladye]

Can you send a photo? If the plant is in a pot with moist media inside a closed plastic bag, LEAVE IT ALONE!!! It is creating its own little mini greenhouse. You do not need to do anything more - no Listerine, no honey water, no nothing! Wait until you see signs of recovery, which may take months.

If you want to learn the basics of caring for Cyms and how to repot/divide them, send a private request to goldcoastcymgrowers@gmail.com. They have two excellent publications which they will be glad to send you. Many of our OB members have requested these publications.