Cymbidium sinense, time from flask to bloom?

[savor]

Season's Greetings!
How long does it take for a Cym sinense (or similar) from bloom pollenation for the seed capsule to be ready for green pod flasking or full term for dry seed flasking?
Then later with best growth how long from flask to bloom?
Thanks,

Lee

lee@classicorchid.com

[stonedragonfarms]

Originally Posted by savor

Season's Greetings!
How long does it take for a Cym sinense (or similar) from bloom pollenation for the seed capsule to be ready for green pod flasking or full term for dry seed flasking?
Then later with best growth how long from flask to bloom?
Thanks,

Lee

lee@classicorchid.com

Lee:

I'm going to shoot in the dark so to speak, but I would guess it will take at least 180 days for the seed pod to mature; germination (primary flasking) should take 2~4 months, with a replate being carried out after that...which would add another year or so to the process. When the seedlings are removed from the replate flask, they will most likely be grown on in a compot or flat for a year and then potted on individually. Depending on conditions, the should flower 2-3 years from this point. All in all, I'd approximate 5 years from mature pod to bloom; if you are looking for something with a much faster turn-around, try phalaenopsis or calanthe--most are capable of seed to bloom in around 2 years under controlled conditions.
Hopefully someone else can chime in with some more definite timing.
Good growing!
Adam

[Des]

It is possible to flower a a cymbid seedling from flask in about 24 months It is a process that i have been working on now for the last 7 years .Most flasks have on average about 25plants. Out of the 25 plants you will find about 15 that are keepers and out of those 15 , 5 are usually larger than the rest those are the plants i give my special "treatment" .The rest are culled or given to friends.These plants are then potted up individually into 50 x 120 mm root trainers I stopped planting into compots last year as it adds nearly a year on to the growing time . the whole procedure I use is long and can be complicated you also learn as you go along . The Chinese and Japanese are masters at the art of growing cymbids in a hurry and i am told they can flower them in 18 months If you are interested I will give you further imformation

[savor]

Thanks Des & Adam,
I am very interested in further info. Here or directly by email.
Still curious how long Cym sinense pods take til dehiscence? Is that 180 days or that when the green pod can be taken to be sown into flasks?
Thanks,
Lee

[Des]

Hi Lee, I don't mind giving you the info on the Forum, but would prefer to send any pics by email as I have not mastered the art of including pics on the forum for some reason it just won't work for me .
The ec and ph of the water used for growing cymbids is very important, so you hav to be able to measure , I use a hanna combo meter. My brother who lives in Oz uses the cheap meters they hav there for about 30 dollars and they work just fine . So before we we go any further can you let me know if you are able to measure

[Bobfharris]

Originally Posted by Des

It is possible to flower a a cymbid seedling from flask in about 24 months It is a process that i have been working on now for the last 7 years .Most flasks have on average about 25plants. Out of the 25 plants you will find about 15 that are keepers and out of those 15 , 5 are usually larger than the rest those are the plants i give my special "treatment" .The rest are culled or given to friends.These plants are then potted up individually into 50 x 120 mm root trainers I stopped planting into compots last year as it adds nearly a year on to the growing time . the whole procedure I use is long and can be complicated you also learn as you go along . The Chinese and Japanese are masters at the art of growing cymbids in a hurry and i am told they can flower them in 18 months If you are interested I will give you further imformation

Hmm I'd be very interested to hear of the technique you refer to. I actually have better luck with using a small compot. I use a 3.5 inch pot and put 10 seedlings in it. Then in 4-6 months I separate them out to 2 inch pots. I can generally get flowers in 2 years, but not always on all the seedlings, usually it takes a bit longer depending on the hybrid.

As to the question of sinense, my lab tells me that it can take up to 24 months for the seeds to germinate from a pod, and that in general the terrestrial cymbs are slow to germinate, though I cannot as yet verify this.

[Des]

Hi Bob , if you are flowering in about 2 years then you are doing well. 2 years is about the best I have done in my system, although I have flowered a back bulb in 15 months, I dont know if this would count as it was a very large backbulb ! Anyway here's my method .
1) Use only strongest plants from flask.
2) Plant into 50mm X120mm root trainers . The media I use is coconut husk chips which has been rinced out a number of times in rain water. the ph should be arround 6 . I aim for an ec below 300 microsiemens.
Some of the blocks of coconut hust are so loaded with salt that I sometimes have problems getting the ec down to acceptable levels
3) The pots are placed in a tray which holds about 5mm of nutrient , A few of the pots in the trays receive dripper tubes through which nutrient is pumped
3 to 4 times a day (depending on daytime temperatures)
4) The fertilizing programme has a 6 week cycle .
Week 1&2 50% magnesium sulphate and 50% multifeed ( a medium nitrogen hydroponic feed)
Week 3&4 Multiffed only
Week 5&6 Calcium nitrate only
Ec March to October 300 to 400 microsiemens
November to February 400 to 600 microsiemens
5) The ph of the nutient must be between 6 and 6.8 I add dolomite lime to the pots every 4 months this keeps the media " sweet"
6) The nutrient is aerated 24/7 and I give the plants an oxygen boost every few days using Hyprox. Also very important I heat the nutrient to 16 to 18 degrees celcius do not exceed this temp as it drives off the disolved oxygen. Well I have come to the end of my typing ability for now would you u like to compare notes on your system ?

[Bobfharris]

Originally Posted by Des

Hi Bob , if you are flowering in about 2 years then you are doing well. 2 years is about the best I have done in my system, although I have flowered a back bulb in 15 months, I dont know if this would count as it was a very large backbulb ! Anyway here's my method .
1) Use only strongest plants from flask.
2) Plant into 50mm X120mm root trainers . The media I use is coconut husk chips which has been rinced out a number of times in rain water. the ph should be arround 6 . I aim for an ec below 300 microsiemens.
Some of the blocks of coconut hust are so loaded with salt that I sometimes have problems getting the ec down to acceptable levels
3) The pots are placed in a tray which holds about 5mm of nutrient , A few of the pots in the trays receive dripper tubes through which nutrient is pumped
3 to 4 times a day (depending on daytime temperatures)
4) The fertilizing programme has a 6 week cycle .
Week 1&2 50% magnesium sulphate and 50% multifeed ( a medium nitrogen hydroponic feed)
Week 3&4 Multiffed only
Week 5&6 Calcium nitrate only
Ec March to October 300 to 400 microsiemens
November to February 400 to 600 microsiemens
5) The ph of the nutient must be between 6 and 6.8 I add dolomite lime to the pots every 4 months this keeps the media " sweet"
6) The nutrient is aerated 24/7 and I give the plants an oxygen boost every few days using Hyprox. Also very important I heat the nutrient to 16 to 18 degrees celcius do not exceed this temp as it drives off the disolved oxygen. Well I have come to the end of my typing ability for now would you u like to compare notes on your system ?

Well Des, your system is much much more detailed and intensive than mine. Since I manage 10,000 plants here I cannot do what you are doing.. I simply use a mix of 20% coir, 20% NZ #8 bark, 40% fine coconut chips (yes washed twice after soaking), and 20% fine perlite. To this I add some dolomite, a mix of 10 and 65 AG at about 8-12 oz to 10 gallons I put them 10 in a 3.5 inch pot, in rows of 3-4-3. I usually put the biggest ones together and keep all but the very smallest. Then after 4-6 months they are large enough to transplant to 2 inch pots. I fertilize every week with a Dosatron using a mix that is 15-5-25 and 1 time a month, Ca Nitrate. I top dress the 2 inch pots with 13-13-13 nutricote 180 with micros. I let them get rain etc on them and keep them outside under 62% shade.
I repot every 4-6 months depending on the variety. Generally I get flowers in the 5 inch or 6 inch pots if they are the warm weather types, a bit longer sometimes for the larger cool weather types as I move them to a cooler clime up the mountain, which slows them down.

[Des]

Wow Bob , 10000, are they all cymbids ? I have about 800 . If your family is anything like mine come repotting time they have things to do and places to go , so come repotting time you must be a lonely lonely man !!
In my method when the roots of the plant reach the bottom of the pot it is potted into the next size pot, this is easy to see as the plant pushes up.If you leave it too long it will try and push itself out of the pot !By doing it this way the plant produces a large healthy root system. I only allow the plant to become potbound once it it in a 175 mm or 200 mm pot depending on the plants progress . At a year they usually have a fair size bulb with a new growth on its way some have 2 new growths . I believe the Chinese cut the second growth off, the plant then flowers sooner They may be more interested in selling the flowers than the plant.
Regards Des