Cymbidium + Virus? + dry bulbs + Lesson.

[empiref]

I had an issue with one of my Cyms about 6 weeks ago and I thought it had passed.

Cymbidium bulb rot and yellowing leaves in Semi-Hydro.

Unfortunately that was not the case, things went well for about 2 weeks before signs of deterioration started to show again, I immediately isolated the cym and placed it far away from my other cyms and orchids.

I placed it in a smaller pot, my medium being semi-hydro.
when I repotted, i removed 2 bulbs and discarded them, I sliced one of the bulbs and there was no rot or any visible problem on the inside of the bulb.

Kept it outside under the rain storm for about 2 days.

Now the bulbs are becoming shriveled and dry.

I don't know what went wrong, the only thing I can think of is not trimming the roots when I moved it to semi-hydro back in March.

I am definitely losing the cym, wanted to post pics in order to get info from the experts on this forum and in order to avoid a similar happening again.

here are the pics, and hope this helps a fellow board member that is facing a similar problem.

First pic was taken about weeks ago and the last pic was taken today.

[katied]

Are the bulbs hard or mushy?

I have a cymbidium that got rot (it wasn't that bad) from being too moist but it came back from it due to have new bulbs that I prevented from rotting. It had about 5 or 6 bulbs to start with and ended up with one and a small shoot on the sides, now its up to the old one and three new ones slowly growing.

[empiref]

Originally Posted by katied

Are the bulbs hard or mushy?

I have a cymbidium that got rot (it wasn't that bad) from being too moist but it came back from it due to have new bulbs that I prevented from rotting. It had about 5 or 6 bulbs to start with and ended up with one and a small shoot on the sides, now its up to the old one and three new ones slowly growing.

Hello katied,

The bulbs are hard and dry.

[katied]

I would just leave them in the pot and you might get it to grow new bulbs but it just takes time to see if it would or just die.

[Cym Ladye]

Empiref,

I think you have two problems here. There is a big difference between crown rot (brown rot) and black rot (rot starting at base of green bulb and spreading from base to base) but I do not think you had either.

In looking at the first picture more carefully, the loss of one leaf and the shriveling of the bulbs, looks more like a simple root problem. Loss of roots will cause a definite shriveling of the bulbs as no nutrients can be absorbed by the bulbs to support the leaves. Whenever you remove a leafless bulb or convert a green bulb to a BB, ALWAYS remove the roots.

The cut on the bulb appears black, but is it just dry? If it is just dry from the sun, then try this: remove all roots and all leaves from the two bulbs. Place in a plastic quart Zip Lok with damp mix, NOT HYDRO. Seal and place in a warm place like a shelf under grow lights, if you have them, or other warm spot. Keep away from cold windows and direct sun.

Your second problem is sun burn occurring after you took the plant out of hydro. In the future, when drying out roots, air drying is the best way to go. Never use water or place in direct sun. The leaf burn and the apparent burn on the bulbs evidently occurred when you had it lying outside.

I hope this helps.

Cym Ladye

[empiref]

Originally Posted by Cym Ladye

Empiref,

I think you have two problems here. There is a big difference between crown rot (brown rot) and black rot (rot starting at base of green bulb and spreading from base to base) but I do not think you had either.

In looking at the first picture more carefully, the loss of one leaf and the shriveling of the bulbs, looks more like a simple root problem. Loss of roots will cause a definite shriveling of the bulbs as no nutrients can be absorbed by the bulbs to support the leaves. Whenever you remove a leafless bulb or convert a green bulb to a BB, ALWAYS remove the roots.

The cut on the bulb appears black, but is it just dry? If it is just dry from the sun, then try this: remove all roots and all leaves from the two bulbs. Place in a plastic quart Zip Lok with damp mix, NOT HYDRO. Seal and place in a warm place like a shelf under grow lights, if you have them, or other warm spot. Keep away from cold windows and direct sun.

Your second problem is sun burn occurring after you took the plant out of hydro. In the future, when drying out roots, air drying is the best way to go. Never use water or place in direct sun. The leaf burn and the apparent burn on the bulbs evidently occurred when you had it lying outside.

I hope this helps.

Cym Ladye

Cym Ladye,

Hope you are well,

I would like to clarify a couple of things, first of all what you see in the pics of the drying of the roots occurred only for about 10 minutes, I pulled it out, removed the bulbs and placed it back into semi-hydro in a smaller pot.

However The pot was left outside in the open away from the other cyms in the open in the sun all day and under the rain.

Yes the bulbs are only dry, no rot whatsoever. I did what you advised me to do, and placed the leafless rootless bulbs wrapped in a damp small towel and placed them in a tightly sealed bag. what should I wait for, new roots and new growths?

when I removed the roots, there was no rot on the roots as well.

I'm relieved that there is no virus issue, but can the root problem be caused by me not trimming them when I transferred the cym into sem-hydro back in March?

Thank you again for your help and God bless!

[Cym Ladye]

...."However The pot was left outside in the open away from the other cyms in the open in the sun all day and under the rain.".....
This is the cause of the brown, burned appearance on the bulbs. NOT ROT.

".... placed the leafless rootless bulbs wrapped in a damp small towel and placed them in a tightly sealed bag. what should I wait for, new roots and new growths?".....
I said to put them in an orchid mix, not a wet towel. This means standing them upright (1/3 buried) in bark, or Coco chips or coir or a mix of the above. If you have no access to any mix, then put one teaspoon of water in the bag with the BBs and a tag and seal the bag. The moisture will help plump up the BBs. Leave in the bag until you see about an inch of green leaved growth. Then plant in media in a 2" or 3" pot. Keep bag at room temperature, if possible.

....."when I removed the roots, there was no rot on the roots as well.".....
If you mean the roots were firm, then are correct in assuming them viable with no rot. However, by reducing the plant to 2 bulbs, you reduced its ability to survive. I have to ask, why did you keep taking bulbs off? Soft, or rotten roots, do not mean the bulb has ROT. It just means the roots are rotten and cannot transfer nutrients to the bulb.

"....I'm relieved that there is no virus issue,..."
Not true. I have not addressed the virus issue at all as I cannot tell from the leaves whether they show signs or not. The only way to positively diagnose virus is to test it with Agdia Strips or send it to a lab to have a small leaf sample tested. Google orchid virus on the Internet and read up on CymMV, ORSV and Orchid Fleck viruses specifically.

"....but can the root problem be caused by me not trimming them when I transferred the cym into sem-hydro back in March?...."
Diagnosing a problem after the fact is very iffy as I can only go with the photos you post. And since touch and smell are of utmost importance in diagnosing a problem, I am working at a definite disadvantage here.
That said, the bottom line is you have a plant which was just not getting any nutrients to the bulbs (indicated by the shriveling of the bulbs) from the roots, perhaps only because it takes time for a plant to acclimate from one growing media to another. Not removing the roots from the leafless bulbs was only part of it.
1) Assuming you had rot in the first place and removing the BBs from the division when you first replaced it in hydro left the poor plant no reservoir from which to generate energy to promote new growth and new roots which would have been needed to acclimate the plant to hydro.
2) Removing it again, removing more bulbs and putting the plant in the sun caused sunburn and further stress.

I hope you will get a new growth from one of the BBs but there is no guarantee. They may not have the stored energy to send out a growth. However, that will only be the first step as then you will have to nurse it through to blooming condition, which may will take 4-5 years. The one thing you will have gained is knowledge, which is always a good thing.

Good Luck,

CL