looking for a book(s) on cymbidiums

[jmateosky]

Hola to all you gurs out there!

I am looking for a book on cymbidiums any recomendations? I would rrather it be more than your normal put it in a pot let it have some light and water.... I would really like to find out info on parantage. yes I know this might be asking a lot but if you do not ask....

Thanks all,

Jim

[Cym Ladye]

Jim,

You have asked a multi faceted question as to resources. If you wish to study the Cym. species, I would recommend the second edition of DuPuy and Cribbs, The Genus Cymbidium. If you can get the first edition, so much the better. Santa Barbara Orchid Estate in Santa Barbara, CA. has the second edition. Even though it is a bit pricey, it has lots to recommend it...and lots of pictures!

As to hybrid parentage, Sander's books on all orchid hybrids were once available through the AOS (American Orchid Society). I do not know if there are current ones, as so much has gone on line. Browse through the AOS website's Bookstore and see what comes up.

A direct source, if you know either the registered name or the parents, is the RHS registration section on their website.

Good Luck,

Cym Ladye

[jmateosky]

Thanks for your recomendations. Here is the delema and thus the multi-faceted question: I have many beautiful Hybrids (cymbs) they all flower for me in the winter (ish). I have been gathering more and more species or simple hybrids, that flower other times of the year, these are not as spectacular as the hybrids. I have crossed lots of cats and oncidiums, draculas, stanhopias... But cymbs are new to me. I would like cymbidiums all year round. I realize lots and lots of work has allready been done so I'd like to learn about what has been done. I hope it is not all secret.


Jim

[Cym Ladye]

Jim,

Once a cross is registered, it is no longer a secret. For the last 30 or so years, many hybridizers have been striving for exactly what you are looking to do: extend the quality hybrid season to all year long. It hasn't happened yet but more and more quality hybrids are available in months other than Dec through April.

The Chinese species, specifically Cym. ensifolium, has given us the early, fall blooming, intermediate sized, fragrant hybrids. Although form is still sadly lacking even after three generations, colors tend to be vibrant in the clear yellow to brushed orange shades and a faint fragrance still remains in some clones. Greens and pinks pinks are also available.

At the late end of the season, Cym. madidum, a cute, green, fragrant miniature flower but with large bulbs and long foliage, has given us the wonderfully pendent novelties with as many as 50 flowers to a spike in some crosses.

Cym. lowianum standard hybrids are of course well known for a later season in late April and May but this is a species which has been used since the beginning of time and much of its truly late season influence has disappeared.

In other words Jim, a lot of work has been done before you. If you are truly serious about viewing the current hybrid registry and staying current on these plants, my suggestion would be to subscribe to Orchid Wiz or the Wildcatt Orchid Program. The advantage of Orchid Wiz is the pictures, although not 100% accurate, they make the best of what they can get

If you have been able to get a copy of the Genus Cymbidium, which I mentioned earlier, it will give you the time of bloom for each species. Using this as a guide, you can see how the species are used to "stretch the season". One fact I always thought interesting was if you take an early fall species to a late summer species, you will not get something blooming during the summer but in the middle of the winter! Go figure!

CL

[Bobfharris]

Hi Jim
There are really two issues in your quest. First are the hybrids. Yes some will bloom in summer and or twice a year. Many of these crosses will have ensifolium in them or as in the case of Dolly will have pumilum in them. I actually have some in bloom right now and some spiking. Some like Red Beauty will through a percentage off season. One thing you should note in your favor. The closer to the equator the more likely you are to get blooming twice a year. There are growers in Colombia who do this regularly.
The second issue has to do with fertilizing and when you hit your plants with the low N high K regime. This will influence many of the plants to bloom off season. So far my limited work in Hawaii gains me only 20-50% bloom in summer. The ones with the crosses I named above are more likely. But even those crosses are not the larger standards, but the mini and intermediate ones. The famed Milton Carpenter 'Everglades Gold' is in spike right now for me, but while a nice large flower, it won't last long as a cut and even as a pot plant this bloom is short lived. So as you can see there are real tradeoffs. As to a book.. you can read a lot, but when it comes down to it you are going to have to try things in your area and while Kobsukh's new book focuses on Warm Toleant cyms his conditions may in fact be very different than yours. I've found many things that aren't the same in Hawaii, ie supposed cool growing bloom warm here, and warm that don't behave very nicely etc. I'd defintely get yourself a subscription to Orchidwiz and work with that. It is a tremendous tool.

[Cym Ladye]

Hi Bob,

Good to hear you chime in on this topic. We pretty much agree with our recommendations to Jim but you added one very important factor and that is the consideration of climatic zone and its effect on the bloom cycle as well as blooming in general. We are spoiled here in the SF Bay Area with a climate ideally suited to the growing of all Cyms outside all year. You in Hawaii are adapting to warmer temps but you have the added bonus of blooming twice a year for many of the miniature based hybrids.

Cheers,

CL

[Bobfharris]

Hi CL
I'm very aware of how special the Bay Area is.. I lived in Inverness for over 30 years and had a collection there on the coast. Never had to worry about bugs like I do here, or what triggered flowering (though I did get Leodogran to flower twice a year) and only twice in 30 years did I have to worry about freezing. Nice part is the coast of CA is almost the perfect Cym weather.. Lucky You.. I'm a member of the Gold Coast group and have quite a few friends there..
Aloha
Bob

[jmateosky]

Thanks for you excellent response, the more you know the more you know you do not know.

Bob, I have read much about the low N high K, but I have questions to how it realtes to or which is more important light and temperature changes? I try to match all 3. I guess what you are implying is that with the more warm tolerant variety light and temp changes are less important. than the low N high K regime?

Any Ideas if there is any parralel to the low N high K regime in nature? is this in some way have to do with the rainey season?

Ohhh so mnay more questions rattleing around my brain....Thanks again.

Jim

[jmateosky]

http:// orchidspecies.com/cymcanaliculatum.htm

hot to cool growing epiphytic species I often read this but most of the cymbs are not hot growing. I really like Cymbidium canaliculatum ( I do not have one yet ). This seems like it would be a great canidate to cross with?

Jim

[Cym Ladye]

Jim,

Cym. canaliculatum has not proven to be a good parent in regard to plant size and leaf characteristics as both still tend to produce a coarse plant into the third generation. Flowers are cute and small and usually of good color, but from a commercial point of view, the plant characteristics are considered a detriment.

Cym. madidum, another warm growing, miniature flowered species from Australia, has been used extensively in recent years but the large, standard size of the plant and leaf length have again been a problem to many. However, the dominant plant influences of this species tend to have been moderated by hybridizers better than those of Cym. canaliculatum through selective breeding. A dwarf size of this species has been found and perhaps using it as a parent will aid in reducing the overall size of its hybrids while keeping the charming characteristics of the flowers.

CL