looking for a book(s) on cymbidiums

[Jim Kawasaki]

Jim,

In addition to what Bob and Cym Ladye have suggested, I would suggest the following 3 books by Graham Guest: Cymbidiums, More Cymbidiums and I've Got Spikes. Unfortunately, they are out of print but you might find a copy in your local orchid club library or check ebay, etc.

Jim

[Bobfharris]

I concur with Jim Kawasaki ..though I'm not sure how much would be applicable to Costa Rica. In case Guest Orchids still has copies you can try emailing Graham at guestorchids@bigpond.com. I've Got Spikes is probably worth reading for general info on Cymbidiums, but if you are growing them by now you should know most of what's in these books.
What you are seeking however is very specialized and not common information for most Cymbidium growers. All the Calif growers are blessed on the coast of Calif with cool nights and warm days, especially in spring and summer. Ideal for cymbidiums so they can basically just feed and water and they will bloom nicely. Even Andy in Florida or Kobsukh in Thailand will be different than you as they are working with Heat tolerant cymbidiums NOT warm tolerant. Costa Rica (though I haven't been there since 1978) as I remember has similar conditions to what I have here which is more like temps in the mid 50's to mid 80's with the scale shifting a bit seasonally while the day night difference is not very extreme. This necessitates two things as I indicated. Selection of cymbidiums that do not have the absolute requirement of a 15-20+ degree F difference between day and night, and second some period of nitrogen deprivation with potassium boost.
To find these requires some work on your part. As is well known there are some that will do this. Especially the ensifolium derived hybrids, ie Peter Pan offspring, Golden Elf etc. To get larger flower sizes and colors these have been bred with larger more colorful ones. Some of these crosses will work in a warm environment, some won't. Ie crossing with the likes of Red Beauty, or Balkis 'Nevada' etc will be more warm tolerant. And in many cases it is often very specific clones of the larger flowered standards that have warm tolerance in the background.
One other hint is that often pure color varieties such as pure white and pure green and pure yellow are often more tolerant.
Net result is you really have to try these under your conditions. I'm constantly amazed as to what blooms that is labeled as cool weather. Ie Sarah Jean 'Ice Cascades' seems to bloom more freely here in Hawaii than it does in Calif. Go figure.
Some crosses based on some species will depend on where the orig species was gathered from, ie high up the mountain or lower. Pumulum crosses for example can be both warm and frustratingly poor for warm. The poor ones frequently set buds early in the season, and then sit in bud stage for 5-6 months and then die. Others bloom later and are very tolerant. Some of the Mimi's are both ways.
Hope this helps.
Bob

[Bobfharris]

Originally Posted by jmateosky

http:// orchidspecies.com/cymcanaliculatum.htm

hot to cool growing epiphytic species I often read this but most of the cymbs are not hot growing. I really like Cymbidium canaliculatum ( I do not have one yet ). This seems like it would be a great canidate to cross with?

Jim

Canaliculatum crosses are very tricky. First they often take years to first bloom. I have some Ensi Canal that are now into their 4th year and no blooms. Kobsukh said his took 4.5 years. Also they can be tricky in requiring a dry winter. Also they are deeply pendulous. Those are the cautions to this species. Cliff Hutchings in Australia and Justin Prudy have done quite a bit with it. Ask them. But then they are in a very extreme hot climate.
Bob

[jmateosky]

I ordered by David du Puy and Philip Cribb, I will look into the others mentioned. On Jay fals wonderful website, in the cymb pages, there are many that are described to be found sea level to 1000+ meters ( I am not sure of the lattitude ) which brings me to wonder about the real temp reqirements of these plants, I believe part is where the original plant is was taken i.e. sea level will flower at a warmer temp than one of the same species taken from 1500M, I believe???

I had several conversation with milton carpenter in glades FL, glades, FL is hot and hotter. his words of wisdom to me were that many plants that were labled cool growing would not flower for him in the heat, but the offspring which he deflasked there did much better. I have seen this in reverse in my inestigations to catleays. the like it hotter, I have killed more mother plants than I would like to admit by bring them from a hot climate to my intermidiate ( to cool) climate, but the offspring grow wonderfully ( maybe a litle slower ) but nicely, and flower I think more intensly... Light and fertilizer is clearly a factor as well to be added to the equation. I grow them in low light and step them up in light and pot size this seems to work nicley....

Thansk again for you input.

Jim

[dr_dmd]

Crib and DuPuy's book is the BEST - really outstanding. SBOE does have it - and it is pricey, but it is well worthwhile if you love cymbidiums. All the best!
Don in CA

[jmateosky]

I looked at http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/ cymspecies/aloifolium.htm and the orchidsspeiceis web site. they both say 0-1500 M I looked on the map an it seems like it should be considered warm at 0 meters sure at 1500M is another stroy a little cooler, intermediate.


Is Cymbidium aloifolium warm growing?

Jim

[Bobfharris]

Originally Posted by jmateosky

I looked at http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/ cymspecies/aloifolium.htm and the orchidsspeiceis web site. they both say 0-1500 M I looked on the map an it seems like it should be considered warm at 0 meters sure at 1500M is another stroy a little cooler, intermediate.


Is Cymbidium aloifolium warm growing?

Jim

aloifolium is in fact VERY warm growing. Short lived flowers, a weedy grower, lots of foliage and little pendulous flowers. Not worth much as a breeder. Gordon Gibbs was probably the only real successful offspring

[jmateosky]

I actually have several aloifolium, the flowers last as longs as cats. Weedy? because it is real hardy?

My real question was when I see cymbidiums found at low altitude the are warm to hot growers?

Jim

[Bobfharris]

Originally Posted by jmateosky

I actually have several aloifolium, the flowers last as longs as cats. Weedy? because it is real hardy?

My real question was when I see cymbidiums found at low altitude the are warm to hot growers?

Jim

Cats have a range of longevity.. so to be fair aloifolium flowers last on the order of about 2 weeks while good cymbs last about4-6 weeks or longer.
RE warm. It depends a lot on the species behind the plant. ensifolium has lots of warm or heat tolerance while madidum less so and yet it is low elevation.
Kobsukh once posted a list of what he considered a heirarchy of heat tolerance:

Species
Heat Factor
1Cym ensifolium subsp haematodes 10.0
2 Cym canalicaulatum 10.0
3 Cym aloifolium 10.0
4 Cym finlaysonianum 9.5
5 Cym ensifolium subsp ensifolium 8.5
6 Cym munronianum 8.0
7 Cym dayanum 8.5
8 Cym madidum 8.0
9 Cym bicolor 8.5
10 Cym atropurpureum 8.5
11 Cym chloranthum 7.0
12 Cym sinense 5.5

aloifolium is 'weedy' meaning lots of vegetative growth compared to the amount of flowering.