Ultra Miniature Cyms

[Cattleya17]

Thank You for that advice. Do you think that Four 40 watt flourescent tubes will do? i really dont have the money for the Big Light systems so really the Tubes are all i can afford
So i can only work with what ive got or can afford. so let talk realisticly here. just how many tubes should i get to make things better? The heat tolerant mini that he offered will fit under the shelf and i really like it and i can crack the window to make it cool if need so it will get down to 55. I did it last year. What do you think?

[unhappykat]

four 40 watt tubes will be fine, as long as they are over 5000k. that is the color of the sun, less than that and things grow slower, more and you get temperature problems. It is better to have six tubes but four is the minimum. keeping the temps like you did last year would be fine.

[Bobfharris]

Originally Posted by unhappykat

Warmth tolerant means that the plants dont need to experience the temperatures under fifty in order to spike. These plants can also take temps up to and over 100 without damage. They are however not as hardy as standards and require a bit of protection if you plan outside culture, good choice for under lights and large window sills.

Actually warm tolerant has several meanings. 1. Can take higher temperatures ie above mid 80's. 2. Will flower without the day night differential of 25 degrees. 3 Will not have bud drop if temperatures at night are above 55 degrees. Also the plants are NOT weaker that are warm tolerant and I grow most of mine outdoors in full (very strong) sun here in Hawaii. Many of the excellent minis are from Golden Elf lines and or Peter Pan lines that are warm tolerant because of ensifolium in the background.

[Bobfharris]

Originally Posted by Jerry Delaney

I always found it interesting that some of the Cymbibiums like madidum were refered to as "miniature" when madidum can get quite large vegetatively. Oh well, I'm confused most of the time anyway!!

Indeed madidum and its offspring are very large bulbed but the flowers are small and the term mini applies to flower size. Many are working to create smaller bulbed madidum offspring. I have one that is called Dutchman's Gold and it blooms nicely in a 5 inch pot with about 20 flowers per spike and is very warm tolerant.

See picture http://tinyurl.com/52wtwd

[Bobfharris]

Originally Posted by unhappykat

The new 'miniature' cymbidiums appearing from places like Santa Barbara are begining to utilize the compact and pendant species to produce plants with flowers that may be only one half to one quarter the size of 'Standard' cymbidiums but appear on plants that are generally under two feet in height at maturity and remain in a tight clumpinf form instead of the spreading habit of most. They are refining their breeding to increase flower size while keeping the foliage more manageable. They are still generations away from truly miniature cymbidiums though.

Actually the term miniature predates the usage by SBOE. In the 60's and 70's the term was used extensively for many of the breeds that derived from floribundum (pumilum). I used to get minis from Rod McLellan's in S. San Francisco that were about 2.5 inch flowers or less.

[unhappykat]

Originally Posted by Bobfharris

Actually warm tolerant has several meanings. 1. Can take higher temperatures ie above mid 80's. 2. Will flower without the day night differential of 25 degrees. 3 Will not have bud drop if temperatures at night are above 55 degrees. Also the plants are NOT weaker that are warm tolerant and I grow most of mine outdoors in full (very strong) sun here in Hawaii. Many of the excellent minis are from Golden Elf lines and or Peter Pan lines that are warm tolerant because of ensifolium in the background.

I didnot say the plants were weaker than standards as far as light was concerned, I meant during the winter these tolerant varieties dont have the ability to take the occasional frost and rain like standards. I have seen a few of them that have gone through a winter and come out with lots of damaged and dead bulbs while standards look just fine.

[another.one]

Originally Posted by unhappykat

The new 'miniature' cymbidiums appearing from places like Santa Barbara are begining to utilize the compact and pendant species to produce plants with flowers that may be only one half to one quarter the size of 'Standard' cymbidiums but appear on plants that are generally under two feet in height at maturity and remain in a tight clumpinf form instead of the spreading habit of most. They are refining their breeding to increase flower size while keeping the foliage more manageable. They are still generations away from truly miniature cymbidiums though.

Very helpful!!! This is exactly what I spent hours of Googling to find. Of course, I gave up Google and utilized the search function on the OB. Little button, way up there... Why didn't I see it before? ><

[Bobfharris]

Originally Posted by unhappykat

I didnot say the plants were weaker than standards as far as light was concerned, I meant during the winter these tolerant varieties dont have the ability to take the occasional frost and rain like standards. I have seen a few of them that have gone through a winter and come out with lots of damaged and dead bulbs while standards look just fine.

First your findings sound interesting. I have not seen that my warm tolerant cyms are affected by rain at all. Many of them are outside in Hilo and it really really rains. Second, I cannot reliably comment about frost as we don't have it here. But when I lived in CA I had some cool weather ones that were more sensitive than some of the miniature ones and vice versa. For example Red Beauty is quite sensitive to frost. So I am a bit loathe to generalize. Having said that you still may be quite correct, and certainly about ones that came from ensifolium.

So I guess we need to draw up a list and mark them as to sensitivity to frost. A good research project..for a nice grad student somewhere.

Thanks for the discussion and provoking some thought

[cricketerry]

Cattleya 17, just going right back to your thoughts of putting your cym(s) under lights in the winter. They would be ok with light in a window if you had one available, cutting out the need for any artificial light.

Just thought I would mention this just in case you thought that artificial light was a must have rather than a could have.

[stonedragonfarms]

I'm not sure that I agree with this; I have never had much luck with cymbidiums in the house on windowsills in the winter--here in the midwest we just don't get enough light in the winter for cymbidiums to finish the bloom cycle--the spikes will elongate, but the buds often blast as they begin to develop. If you are fortunate enough to have a south-facing bay window, this might not be the case, but I'd go the under-light route in the winter for minis if I were hoping to see blooms.