Cymbidium Ensifolium- sticky stuff in roots

[MRWPsyD]

Originally Posted by ndam

Hi, I am a novice grower of Asian cymbidiums in Southern California. I have had many issues with root rots like you and I am still searching a solution to minimize this issue. As I understand, Ensifolium or other types of orchids like Kanran, Sinense, or Goeringii cymbidiums, they are very sensitive to potting mix and water cycle. They like moist around their roots, but not wet for so long. I see you watered your cymbidium
at night during Summer which is good. In the Winter, you have to cut down watering and only water in early morning. Potting mix should NOT be majority of bark, since bark retains water too long and when it is decomposed, it causes the pH level higher. I talked to an advanced grower of Goeringii before, he told me the inorganic substances should be best for Asian cymbidiums. It should contain pumice, Japanese Akadama, Kanuma, and Satsuma soil. The mixture of these are not listed anywhere. It is unknown.

Glad to hear I'm not alone in this niche journey haha. Did you by chance get info from Michael Hwang? I watched his talk "An introduction to East Asian Cymbidium" and it had some very similar info. Currently mine is in about half Japanese pumices and half bark, but I will be getting another White Snake to do a direct comparison with fully inorganic soil. Since I'm not on the coast, I'm wondering if bark may help preserve some humidity.

I did fix one thing, which was the depth. I realized I had to water too often because it was potted too high, which left the pbulbs dry but the roots too wet. Culture is weird for these guys. I keep trying to stick to what I know and modify based on recommendations for jensoa cyms, only to find out that these "half measures" of mine create their own problems. There is a website that specializes in Japanese imports, especially neofinetia, but they sell inorganic cym mix. Can't remember the name but I'll let you know if I find it!

[ndam]

Yes, I am a fan of Michael Hwang. My potting mix consists of bark, akadama, kanuma, and satsuma. I purchased the ready to use mix online, but the proportions of each item is not suitable for most of my cymbidiums and the mix may cause problem with overwatering. I am trying the Japanese mix now on 2 pots to see a positive result or not.

[Conjuration]

Originally Posted by ndam

Hi, I am a novice grower of Asian cymbidiums in Southern California. I have had many issues with root rots like you and I am still searching a solution to minimize this issue. As I understand, Ensifolium or other types of orchids like Kanran, Sinense, or Goeringii cymbidiums, they are very sensitive to potting mix and water cycle. They like moist around their roots, but not wet for so long. I see you watered your cymbidium
at night during Summer which is good. In the Winter, you have to cut down watering and only water in early morning. Potting mix should NOT be majority of bark, since bark retains water too long and when it is decomposed, it causes the pH level higher. I talked to an advanced grower of Goeringii before, he told me the inorganic substances should be best for Asian cymbidiums. It should contain pumice, Japanese Akadama, Kanuma, and Satsuma soil. The mixture of these are not listed anywhere. It is unknown.

Hello, also novice cymbidium grower here. My experience only extends back 2 months, so please take my words with a grain of salt.

I pot my cymbidium ensifolium in pure leca using the semihydro system (net pot/cache pot). And so far -- two months in -- the only roots I can observe to have rotted were the ones I've damaged while potting. The damage doesn't have to be extensive: a crack can lead to rot in the pot. Aside from those, I can observe new roots growing down from pseudobulbs and from the old roots. Some of the new roots have grown down into the reservoir and are completely submerged in water and seem to be doing fine (so far).

Maybe my limited experience might be of interest to you.

[Waterdog111]

Like unto Conjuration I have started using a completly inert medium(scoria, red lava rock of a size I like averaging long dimention up to two inches or so. So far I am very pleased with my results with clay pots and set into holders which vary and leaving them holding water and or nutrients to leach up into the rock and it seems to be working for most all my orchids.Good luck!

[alecStewart1]

Originally Posted by MRWPsyD

Since I'm not on the coast, I'm wondering if bark may help preserve some humidity.

I've asked Satomi Kasahara of Seed Engei about these and she's told me that the cyms she has seem to do well in mixes that include bark.

All of mine are in mixes with bark, except for one Cym. ensilfolium that's in a 50/50 peat and perlite mixture that I got from someone. It's oddly doing well, given everyone will tell you to use a mostly if not totally inorganic mix. It will get repotted in the same mostly inorganic mixture the rest are come spring as well as in a taller pot.

Originally Posted by MRWPsyD

I did fix one thing, which was the depth. I realized I had to water too often because it was potted too high, which left the pbulbs dry but the roots too wet.

Most will recommend the bulbs should be halfway covered. Dried "backbulbs" can be use for propagation, however.

Originally Posted by MRWPsyD

Culture is weird for these guys. I keep trying to stick to what I know and modify based on recommendations for jensoa cyms, only to find out that these "half measures" of mine create their own problems.

It's more like the East is a bit more stingy with sharing information. One of the more popular videos on YouTube featuring Michael Hwang, Michael even states that Chinese growers don't like sharing info, and that most information about this group of plants is found in books that are exclusively in Mandarin.

https://youtu.be/YDhcNei0Ziw?si=C7daiyEr5JVGUIZS

From what I've gathered in having these plants for not even a year and not one flowering yet (Cyms get very upset when being unpotted/repotted and shipped), the one thing I'll say is definitely be mindful of watering.

In winter if the plants are outside, they'll likely dry slower since it's cooler out. Anywhere from 5 to 7 days is probably enough time between waterings in winter. You can stick a pipe cleaner in the medium to get a better idea of when to water. While watching the akadama/kanuma to become pale again does seem to work okay, the pieces that are on the surface will dry quicker than the ones below.

Cym. ensifolium doesn't need to be cool during winter, so anything below 60-65 is likely too cold to leave them outside.

Mine I've been watering infrequently because the temperature here in out of whack. At one point it was below 50 degrees Fahrenheit at night (43 being one of the lowest days), the Cym. goeringii I have were left outside and the Cym. ensifolium and sinense where inside in an empty bathtub in a bathroom that's slightly cooler than the rest of the house. I didn't water again until it got in the 70s again, about a week later and took everyone outside again because temps are back up in the mid 80s during the day and mid 60s at night. A couple of days it's been in the low 90s, so since it's been a bit warmer I've watered roughly every other day since I am technically supposed to be holding off water in the cooler seasons, it's not exactly been cool here every day/week.

Such is Texas weather.

Originally Posted by MRWPsyD

There is a website that specializes in Japanese imports, especially neofinetia, but they sell inorganic cym mix. Can't remember the name but I'll let you know if I find it!

I believe Flora Peculia sells a mix:

Cymbidium mix | Flora Peculia

You'll have to message them to see if they still have some in stock.

[Roberta]

Welcome, Conjuration!

Jack Zhu, who has many AOS awards on his Chinese Cyms, uses a mix that contains kanuma, akadama, pumice, and small bark (Kiwi or Orchiata - hard, high quality) in equal proportions. He uses a top dressing of kanuma which looks nice, and also changes color with moisture content - when very light tan, it is time to water again. The tall form pots also are very helpful, these Cyms, especially, seem to like to be able to grow their roots straight down, and the tall narrow pots also let one have larger surface area for the plants to grow, while adding less volume. (I use the larger sizes of that pot style for the smaller regular Cyms for that reason)

Kanuma and akadama are easily obtained on Amazon, I am sure that equivalent online sources in China would have them too. Same for the Asian Cymbidium tall-form pots.

[Conjuration]

Originally Posted by Roberta

Welcome, Conjuration!

Thanks! I'm a long time lurker actually, surreptitiously here since last year.

I chose the leca/semihydro combo for convenience -- leca's much easier to wash than rocks for an apartment dweller, and I happen to have a big bag of it sitting there. A special tall pot is a good idea. Terrestrial cymbidiums' roots do seem very stiff and prefer to go straight down instead of twisting around like phal roots. My orchid's roots are already attempting prison break down the bottom of the apparently too short net pot.

As far as I'm aware, C. ensifolium, in its natural habitat, grows in wooded area alongside bushes and trees and whatnots.

Chinese growers have historically used two kinds of medium for Asian cymbidiums -- the 'soft' medium and the 'hard' medium. Soft medium includes regular potting soil, peat, clay, coconut coir, bark, moss, and even pine leaves. Hard medium includes every kind of rock, volcanic rock, and, of course, leca. Some growers advocate using only soft medium; some advocate hard medium; others advocate using a mixture of both at a certain ratio (the ratio varies from person to person). The same varied recommendations can also be found in historical texts on Asian cymbidium cultivation.

I can't speak about experts, but home growers have recorded success (and failure) for all types of medium mixtures on Chinese forums.