Variations on Cattleya ( Laelia ) purpurata

[unhappykat]

These Cattleya purpurata (Laelia?) are all from a single sibling cross between two carnea types. From the variation it would seem that the parents used were not completely true to type, some of the plants coming from the cross are very unusual.

Has anyone had experience breeding C. purpurata and seen this level of variation when breeding siblings?

[euplusia]

Very interesting. From striata to roxo-violeta, alba, concolor, but no carnea. Have you raised from seed by yourself?
I'm curious now what our carnea x carnea will bring.

[unhappykat]

Originally Posted by euplusia

Very interesting. From striata to roxo-violeta, alba, concolor, but no carnea. Have you raised from seed by yourself?
I'm curious now what our carnea x carnea will bring.

I purchased these from one of my wholesale suppliers, they have been growing and breeding for quite some time and this is one of the more surprising results from their benches. They have grown the entire race from seed and even have a selfing of one of the parents that is also blooming out with this level of variation.

I was hoping to use some of them to produce an outcross with my own carnea type but so far I have seen 10 of these flower and not a single one is a carnea. I still have hope that at least a few of these will be carnea for my own breeding.

[isurus79]

That's a lot of variation, even for this highly variable species! Its hard to believe all these plants came from the same sib cross, but I'm not going to dispute the word of your supplier. Either way, it seems like you've got pretty stock to choose from for your breeding program.

[Fairorchids]

There are subjects for multiple subjects for discussion here:

Laelia or Cattleya?
I am on record rejecting all the recent taxonomical changes/allignments, so I still call it Laelia purpurata.

1. L. purpurata variations
I believe that they recognize close to 200 variations in Brazil. That indicates enormous genetic variation. It also induces people to 'identify' variations, which are but fractionally different from each other, and may be environmentally induced. Thus, when you grow the plant it is pink, and for me it is white with a blush on the tip of the petals.

2. There are growers (commercial and hobby), who indiscriminately put names on their labels, as they sell better with the fancy varietal names. Your assurances of getting what you pay for go up when you buy from well known sellers with a good reputation (BUT, there are a few well known sellers, who have a reputation for switching labels). And yet, there is so much trading of plants, that even the most reliable seller is at the mercy of his/her suppliers.

3. It is too easy to assign a varietal name.
Unless you know the genealogy going back several generations, there is no assurance that it really is a variety. It could be just a color form, or it could be a random expression from a genetically varied population.

This also applies to wild collected plants. If it is a single individual with the desirable characteristics, is it stable? If it is one of a uniform population, it is more likely to be stable, but there are no guarantees.

It could be from a seed pod, produced by two distinct and different types. In that case, the seedling population is fairly uniform, but with their genetic background, the next generation will express a great deal of variation.

4. Variations in meristem produced plants.
Meristem produced plants should be true to the parent plant, so this may be the most reliable way to obtain specific varieties. In reality, even without colchicine treatment (to produce 4N plants), some random mutations tend to occur.

I have heard it said, that 60% will appear identical, 20% will be better and 20% will be worse, compared with the parent plant. And, to top it off, I know of one population of meristems, which produced about 10% 4N plants without colchicine treatment.

[Guido]

I think flower #2 & #4 are quite pretty. It seems to me this species has quite a natural variation. Now, what I think is annoying is that a long time grower would use unproven parents for breeding and claim surprise later. For you to get a very high % of identical plants/flowers you need to do cloning. To obtain a high % of identical plants/flower by breeding then you are talking about 3 or 4 generations until you stabilize the traits you desire. Have you consider beginning with your own C. purpurata carnea? Is this orchid of award winner quality? Do a self pollination and start culling the undesirables Every time you bring an unknown into your gene pool you are going to get a hell of a surprise.
An awarded plant cuts back on the hard work you are trying to achieve. hope I gave you at least 1 idea.

[estación seca]

These so-called varieties have no taxonomic significance. They are nothing but hobbyist and nursery names for color forms found in populations of highly variable wild plants. It would be surprising for any of them to breed true if they are wild-collected plants or seedlings of wild-collected plants. They would only be real varieties if a geographically circumscribed, true-breeding population of multiple similar plants existed in the wild, which I don't think happens with L. purpurea.

Breeders could work with color forms and select strains that breed true, but that is not the case with the source of your plants.

I personally like the striata, alba and the pale pink lip best.