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  #11  
Old 04-03-2011, 04:39 PM
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Louis_W Louis_W is offline
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Cattleya walkeriana?
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If I understand the photo correctly it looks like the flowers grew from the spot where the bulb meets the leaf. If this is the case then like the others have said your plant is a hybrid.

Last edited by Louis_W; 04-05-2011 at 08:10 AM..
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  #12  
Old 04-04-2011, 12:57 PM
ChrisFL ChrisFL is offline
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The plant pictured in the flickr link is also not a walkeriana.
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  #13  
Old 04-05-2011, 08:09 AM
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Louis_W Louis_W is offline
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If that is the case then sorry for posting a bad link. I have removed it.

ChrisFL- I hope this doesnt come off as rude but would you mind explaining a little bit? What are you looking at when you say that it isnt a C. walkeriana? Surely both the poster and the readers of this thread are not looking simply for an I.D. but also for understanding.
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  #14  
Old 04-05-2011, 11:40 AM
ChrisFL ChrisFL is offline
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Louis, no problem, give me a minute, I will find a link. Harry Akagi does a fantastic job (much better than I could!) explaining the horror show of so-called walkeriana alba genetics.
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  #15  
Old 04-05-2011, 04:43 PM
RobS RobS is offline
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If the flower is comming from a shoot (looks like that) it's a hybrid.
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  #16  
Old 04-05-2011, 05:03 PM
mab3362 mab3362 is offline
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It looks like 'Pendentive' type, a questionable walkeriana, nearly all labeled alba walkerianas are selfings or clones of Pendentive. I have several and these are identical. Usually Pendentive blooms from out of the new forming leaf like a typical cattleya, while pure walkeriana almost always bloom from special blooming growth that arise from the base.
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  #17  
Old 04-06-2011, 06:27 AM
catwalker808 catwalker808 is offline
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I’ll help out Chris here.
The flower looks like a later generation progeny of what is commonly called C walkeriana v alba ‘Pendentive’. This cultivar & its offspring are very recognizable. Most collectors & growers of C walkeriana are very familiar with this cultivar, and most consider it NOT to be a pure C. walkeriana, for a number of reasons. Most believe that ‘Pendentive is probably a hybrid containing indeterminate proportions of C walkeriana and C loddigesii.

There is a type of plant, which is considered a natural hybrid between C. walkeriana & C loddigesii. This natural hybrid is called C. xdolosa. C. walkeriana normally blooms during the late fall/winter/early spring period (May-September, in the southern hemisphere. November-March, in the northern hemisphere). C. loddigesii normally blooms later than C walkeriana. However, late blooms of C walkeriana often coincide with early blooms of C loddigesii, making a natural hybrid very possible. The cross between the two same species, when man-made, is called C. Heathii.

While a natural hybrid between C. walkeriana & C. loddigesii is entirely plausible, I find it difficult to believe that the earth stood still (as well as the birds & the bees) after this natural hybrid occurred. It’s very probable that C. xdolosa was back-crossed, by the birds or the bees, to one of the original parent species. Then, after decades, scores of years, or centuries, the C. xdolosa, which was finally discovered by man, may have come to possess more traits of one parent species than the other. Many people believe that ‘Pendentive’ is C. xdolosa, or similar to it.

Here is some additional background information. C walkeriana is known to usually have the following characteristics:

1) Short pseudobulbs are usually topped by a single leaf. (In cultivation, under rapid growth, heavy feed & water conditions, pbulbs with 2 leaves can occur).
2) Usually, flowers are produced on a specialized growth that emerges from the base of a recently matured pbulb. As it emerges, the growth can be mistaken for a new pbulb. Instead, as it elongates & develops, the terminal end swells & flower buds are formed. 1 or 2 flowers may bloom on a single spike.
3) Usually, flowers spikes do not emerge from the apex of the pbulb, where the leaf adjoins the pbulb.
4) The lip consists of 3 parts (2 side lobes & a middle lobe). The side lobes are the two flaps, one on each side of the column (the “nose” in the middle of the flower). The middle lobe is like the full “lower lip” that extends down below the “nose”. Between the side lobes & the middle lobe, there are distinct smooth transition zones, joining the side & middle lobes. The edges of the side lobes are smooth.
5) The column is exposed, mostly uncovered by the side lobes.

HOWEVER … and here come some exceptions to the usual occurrences. I say “usual” instead of “normal” because I don’t want anyone to consider exceptions as being abnormal.
If a flower spike emerges from the leaf base at the apex of the pseudobulb, rather than the base of the pseudobulb, that does not automatically mean the plant is not a C walkeriana. Although C walkeriana flowers usually emerge from a special leafless growth at the base of a pbulb, occasionally flowers may emerge from a leaf base instead.

From my experience, I believe this can happen in conjunction with accelerated plant growth. For example, if a plant is heavily fed & produces a new pbulb too close to its blooming season, some confusion might occur in the blooming sequence. This might induce a bloom from the apex of the pbulb instead of from the base. Usually, when this occurs, the leaf at that pbulb is underdeveloped & a little truncated. With uninterrupted subsequent growths, most (if not all) subsequent blooms occur from the usual basal spike.

The occasional two-leaf versus one-leaf exception was explained above.

C. loddigesii has very different plant characteristics, different blooming habits & different flower characteristics.

1. C loddigesii has long & slender pseudobulbs.
2. Flowers always bloom from spikes emerging between the leaves at the tops of the pbulbs.
3. C loddigesii flowers have a column which is exposed.
4. The edges of the side lobes & the edges of the middle lobe are ruffled. There is no smooth edged transition zone separating the side lobes from the middle lobe. The ruffled edges of the side lobes are nearly continuous with the ruffled edges of the middle lobe. There is only a very narrow slit, which separates them.

There are several features of ‘Pendentive’, which are very telling to most serious C walkeriana growers. (It is necessary to note here that there are many variations of ‘Pendentive’. For 25 years or more, it has been cloned, the clones have been cloned & those clones have been cloned again. Some of the clones look better & some look considerably worse than the original).

1. Under the same growing conditions, ‘Pendentive’ produces taller, more slender pbulbs than other C. walkeriana plants.
2. ‘Pendentive’ usually blooms from the leaf at the top of a pbulb. Only occasionally does it bloom from a basal growth. In the attached photo of my friend’s ‘Pendentive plant (not a well-grown plant), 5 out of 5 blooms have been from the apex of the pbulb rather from a basal growth.
3. The lip structure of ‘Pendentive’ differs noticeably from the lip structure of C walkeriana. Rather than being smooth, parts of the edges of the side lobes & middle lobes are ruffled. In addition, the transition between side lobes & the middle lobe is also ruffled rather than narrower & straight edged as with C walkeriana flowers.

These trait differences may not seem huge, but they are significant & telling, and indicate the influence of C loddigesii, rather than the traits of pure C walkeriana. This is why many C walkeriana growers do not consider ‘Pendentive a pure C walkeriana, or refer to its line of breeding as “‘Pendentive’ types.”

Many people have plants described or labelled as C walkeriana v alba. I agree with "mab3362" that in many or most cases, these plants are from the ‘Pendentive’ bloodline. These clones or offspring are very recognizable as 'Pendentive' clones or 'Pendentive' offspring, when compared to pure C walkeriana bloodlines.

This type of discussion may seem like a tempest in a teapot. However, to serious C walkeriana breeders & growers, mixing in a second species is not a fair way of getting a rounder or better shape in the offspring. Otherwise, a nearsighted bee with a stuffed up sinus could do the breeding.

Sorry for the length of this post.
Attached Thumbnails
Cattleya walkeriana?-pendentive-2011e-copy-jpg  

Last edited by catwalker808; 04-06-2011 at 02:52 PM..
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  #18  
Old 04-06-2011, 11:10 AM
ChrisFL ChrisFL is offline
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Outstanding post Harry. Thank you for taking the time to write that.
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  #19  
Old 04-06-2011, 02:28 PM
cyann cyann is offline
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thank you thank you very much for your help, I attach more photos






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  #20  
Old 04-07-2011, 10:48 AM
Roy Roy is offline
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To me, where the bud is coming from confirms its not a walkeriana.
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