Your Stance of Virus Testing ......

[Bayard]

I regularly screen my collection and any older divisions I acquire with the Agdia test strips,. Anything that tests positive gets chucked.

In the past I'd been in contact with a vendor who promised to virus test a $500 division of Blc. Malworth Sunset 'Orchidglade', then never heard from him again (he probably sold it to someone else). I also recently purchased two divisions of Blc. Delta King 'Tangerglow' from a dealer that were virused. She graciously allowed me to return the plants and refunded my credit card.

Once, I found Cattleya Ruth Gee 'Diamond Jubilee' on a Hawaiian vendor's site. Sadly, it was virused, but the vendor told me to pitch the plant and he sent me a clean one.

One plant that has tested positive no matter where I got it was Cattleya Dupreana var. coerulea 'Kodama', so I suspect the plant that was mericloned was virused.

On the bright side, last year I acquired a division of Laelia tenebrosa 'Rainforest' - clean!

[Brotherly Monkey]

I can only see one reason not to test, while you were offering to pick up the tab; the plant is likely positive

[Ray]

Just a few comments to further spark this discussion:

If a vendor has a large number of plants for sale, how in the world could they afford to virus test every plant? Does anyone know if Andy's, H&R, Carter & Holmes, or Exotic Orchids of Maui do such complete testing? Many regard them as "top quality" vendors, and I doubt that they do.

Maybe the reason the vendor in the original post said "No" was because he didn't have the means to test, and not because he "knew" the plant was virused. Or possibly he subscribed to the logic below:

Like us, orchids can carry pathogens they were exposed to. That does NOT mean that they will succumb to it. Give the plant the proper culture, and the virus may never cause any issues. Keep sanitary growing practices and it will never spread either. I have read that ALL phalaenopsis are virused. How many of us grow them without issue of concern?

I wonder if the blood supply example is appropriate here - that's a lot more critical, and with far greater consequences that that of a plant. A plant becoming "Typhoid Mary" in the greenhouse is highly unlikely if you do a decent job of growing.

I also have to question the logic behind "I'd buy a known virused plant if it was something I really wanted". If you wanted to keep a "clean collection" (which I believe is impossible - see above), you would NEVER do that.

Don't get me wrong. if I know that plants I have are virused, I trash them immediately - even those I've paid a great deal for. On the other hand, if I have a plant growing and blooming nicely, should I worry about it? As individuals, we each carry a lot of pathogens, yet "as long as we appear healthy" we do not test for them, do we?

[Eyebabe]

Originally Posted by Ray

Just a few comments to further spark this discussion:

If a vendor has a large number of plants for sale, how in the world could they afford to virus test every plant? Does anyone know if Andy's, H&R, Carter & Holmes, or Exotic Orchids of Maui do such complete testing? Many regard them as "top quality" vendors, and I doubt that they do.

Maybe the reason the vendor in the original post said "No" was because he didn't have the means to test, and not because he "knew" the plant was virused. Or possibly he subscribed to the logic below:

Like us, orchids can carry pathogens they were exposed to. That does NOT mean that they will succumb to it. Give the plant the proper culture, and the virus may never cause any issues. Keep sanitary growing practices and it will never spread either. I have read that ALL phalaenopsis are virused. How many of us grow them without issue of concern?

I wonder if the blood supply example is appropriate here - that's a lot more critical, and with far greater consequences that that of a plant. A plant becoming "Typhoid Mary" in the greenhouse is highly unlikely if you do a decent job of growing.

I also have to question the logic behind "I'd buy a known virused plant if it was something I really wanted". If you wanted to keep a "clean collection" (which I believe is impossible - see above), you would NEVER do that.

Don't get me wrong. if I know that plants I have are virused, I trash them immediately - even those I've paid a great deal for. On the other hand, if I have a plant growing and blooming nicely, should I worry about it? As individuals, we each carry a lot of pathogens, yet "as long as we appear healthy" we do not test for them, do we?

I can vouch for Carter and Holmes.
If you are buying one of their divisions, they virus test if requested no problem; and they don't charge for it either.
They didn't bat an eye about it

[peeweelovesbooks]

If a vendor has a large number of plants for sale, how in the world could they afford to virus test every plant? Does anyone know if Andy's, H&R, Carter & Holmes, or Exotic Orchids of Maui do such complete testing? Many regard them as "top quality" vendors, and I doubt that they do.

I have no idea whether they do or not. But, you are comparing Granny Smith apples to Red Delicious. Sure, all the vendors you mentioned (including the one I dealt with) sell orchids. However, I'm not looking to buy a 20.00 rupicolous Laelia.

I was looking at the vendor's Elite Orchid section where the divisions start somewhere in the ballpark of 100 dollars or more. For a piece of an awarded plant.

So, the comparisons aren't really equal. While this vendor sells lots of plants, I also believe he does not have an unlimited quantity of divisions from his awarded cattleyas. So, the universe of plants we are dealing with is very small. And, again, I wasn't asking him to test EVERY plant in his greenhouse, so the cost and quantity argument doesn't fly either. I specifically started the conversation with "I'm looking at your Elite orchids and I'm interested in such and such plant, do you offer virus testing."

Contrast this to SBOE. I have bought divisions that are 175.00 and divisions that are 50.00. I ask for virus testing, and I get it. At no additional cost. The plants are quarantined for one month--at no additional cost to me.

Both vendors are online, both vendors have an extensive catalog of plants. I once ordered a specific division, and SBOE WOULD NOT sell it to me because "virus testing came back suspicious."

I appreciate that.

Like us, orchids can carry pathogens they were exposed to. That does NOT mean that they will succumb to it. Give the plant the proper culture, and the virus may never cause any issues. Keep sanitary growing practices and it will never spread either. I have read that ALL phalaenopsis are virused. How many of us grow them without issue of concern?

I wonder if the blood supply example is appropriate here - that's a lot more critical, and with far greater consequences that that of a plant. A plant becoming "Typhoid Mary" in the greenhouse is highly unlikely if you do a decent job of growing.

I also have to question the logic behind "I'd buy a known virused plant if it was something I really wanted". If you wanted to keep a "clean collection" (which I believe is impossible - see above), you would NEVER do that.

Like I noted in my previous posts, I understand that plants carry pathogens. No plant is sterile. However, as a consumer, I'd like to know what I'm about to buy. If I know beforehand that the division that I want from that vendor is virused, then I have the knowledge to make a choice: take it or leave it. The vendor's unwillingness to allow me that choice is what angered me.

[Brotherly Monkey]

Peewee. correct me if I am wrong, but you also offered to cover the cost of any such test?

[peeweelovesbooks]

Originally Posted by Brotherly Monkey

Peewee. correct me if I am wrong, but you also offered to cover the cost of any such test?

Yes,

I did offer to pay for the testing, and he was still unwilling to do it.

[Connie Star]

Factoid from Dr Connie: 10% of a human beings body weight is made up of bacteria!
Most bacteria are benign; a tiny fraction are lethal. Current thinking in evolutionary biology is that all organisms incorporate viruses into their DNA as they evolve. So, plants undoubtedly have a lot of benign viruses. We test for the ones that can kill the plants, just as we test an ill patient for pathogenic bacteria. Certainly a strong patient, like a strong (ie well-grown) plant will cope better with a pathogen. If a patient has a pathogenic bacteria we don't discard the patient but we do isolate him or her.
Another factoid- bacteria get infected with viruses, too!

[Ray]

Originally Posted by peeweelovesbooks

I have no idea whether they do or not. But, you are comparing Granny Smith apples to Red Delicious. Sure, all the vendors you mentioned (including the one I dealt with) sell orchids. However, I'm not looking to buy a 20.00 rupicolous Laelia.

I was looking at the vendor's Elite Orchid section where the divisions start somewhere in the ballpark of 100 dollars or more. For a piece of an awarded plant.

So, the comparisons aren't really equal. While this vendor sells lots of plants, I also believe he does not have an unlimited quantity of divisions from his awarded cattleyas. So, the universe of plants we are dealing with is very small. And, again, I wasn't asking him to test EVERY plant in his greenhouse, so the cost and quantity argument doesn't fly either. I specifically started the conversation with "I'm looking at your Elite orchids and I'm interested in such and such plant, do you offer virus testing."

Contrast this to SBOE. I have bought divisions that are 175.00 and divisions that are 50.00. I ask for virus testing, and I get it. At no additional cost. The plants are quarantined for one month--at no additional cost to me.

Both vendors are online, both vendors have an extensive catalog of plants. I once ordered a specific division, and SBOE WOULD NOT sell it to me because "virus testing came back suspicious."

I appreciate that.



Like I noted in my previous posts, I understand that plants carry pathogens. No plant is sterile. However, as a consumer, I'd like to know what I'm about to buy. If I know beforehand that the division that I want from that vendor is virused, then I have the knowledge to make a choice: take it or leave it. The vendor's unwillingness to allow me that choice is what angered me.

Sheesh! I was adding considerations to the discussion, not "dissing" your stance.

I'd be as pissed as you,( but not at me for those comments )

[peeweelovesbooks]

Ray,

I have no reason to be pissed at you. I apologize if my post comes off that way.