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-   -   Cattleya guatemalensis (http://www.orchidboard.com/community/cattleya-alliance/34283-cattleya-guatemalensis.html)

PaphMadMan 03-31-2010 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kavanaru (Post 301229)
Laura, Guarianthe (Cattleya) xguatemalensis is the natural hybrid between Guarianthe skinerii and Guarianthe aurantica... since it is a natural hybrids, it is written in lower case, but the "x" indicates it is a hybrid.

True, if it is a wild collected plant or bred from wild collected natural hybrid plant(s).

But if a deliberate cross was made between the 2 species then Guatemalensis, upper case G, no x.

isurus79 03-31-2010 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaphMadMan (Post 301631)
True, if it is a wild collected plant or bred from wild collected natural hybrid plant(s).

But if a deliberate cross was made between the 2 species then Guatemalensis, upper case G, no x.

Ohhhh, the plot thickens!! :lol:

Brenda Aarts 04-01-2010 08:54 AM

2 Attachment(s)
I have this one as well, same label - first bloom for me on this one. My flowers look different from yours. I entered mine in a show in Feb an was advised that because it is a naturally occuring hybrid the plant could be entered in the species category. Found that interesting, not sure if correct technically however.

LauraN 04-01-2010 02:44 PM

Our flowers do look different.
Yours are very nice also!

Orchidflowerchild 04-01-2010 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brenda Aarts (Post 301660)
I have this one as well, same label - first bloom for me on this one. My flowers look different from yours. I entered mine in a show in Feb an was advised that because it is a naturally occuring hybrid the plant could be entered in the species category. Found that interesting, not sure if correct technically however.

hooboy there was a looooot of backcrossing to the skinneri side there, n'est-ce pas?

-Cj

Royal 04-01-2010 04:08 PM

Or an alba aurantiaca was used. :hmm

Orchidflowerchild 04-02-2010 12:45 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyalOrchids (Post 301724)
Or an alba aurantiaca was used. :hmm

"alba" aurantiacas are almost always suspected of actually being guatemalensis, anyway.

Beyond that, colour and shape are very skinneri. I have a guatemalensis that is pretty clearly heavily backcrossed to the aurantiaca...


Regard:

RosieC 04-02-2010 07:11 AM

It's gorgeous.

I find all this stuff about natural hybrids and backcrossing really interesting.

Have I gathered correctly that a backcrossing of a hybrid with one of it's parents is still considered to be the same hybrid name... that could lead to even wider variation in a cross that you would get just from a single mix of the two parents... I had not realised that before.

Orchidflowerchild 04-02-2010 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RosieC (Post 301853)
It's gorgeous.

I find all this stuff about natural hybrids and backcrossing really interesting.

Have I gathered correctly that a backcrossing of a hybrid with one of it's parents is still considered to be the same hybrid name... that could lead to even wider variation in a cross that you would get just from a single mix of the two parents... I had not realised that before.

Well, only in natural hybrids. What develops in nature is called a hybrid swarm, where you have he two parent species at either extreme of the variability and potentially any variation between them. You get crosses back to either parent pretty readily and sometimes it can be for so many generations that it's almost impossible to tell where the species end and the hybrids begin.

In cultivation, though, backcrosses are considered new hybrids.

-Cj

RosieC 04-02-2010 11:43 AM

Thanks Cj, good to know.

So what happens if a natural hybrid is crossed with one of it's parents in cultivation rather than in the wild, does it then become a new hybrid or does it stay the same :hmm

As was said above a cross between skinerii and aurantica made in cultivation gets a capital letter as a hybrid, so do crosses of guatemalensis (the natural version) and one of the parent species stay as Guatemalensis or get called something else...

... it's a coplex business isn't it ;)


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